Talk:Patrick Quinn (athlete)

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North Tipp vs Tipp

I reiterate my point which I made at Patrick Maher (hurler) "I understand why editors would argue that because North Tipperary has a separate county council that it is more accurate to state that. However that is not practical. If one was to take Dublin as an example this would mean changing Dublin to Fingal Dun Laoighaire-Rathdown for certain individuals. No one self identifies as being from Fingal or Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown. They will say they are from Dublin. Irish people don't use county councils to refer to their from, they use the traditional county i.e one of the 32 counties". Finnegas (talk) 22:52, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The point here is that anyone born before 2001 is not from "North Tipperary", which was magicked into existence in that year (and will disappear in a puff of smoke next year). If we describe Paddy Quinn as having been born in "North Tipperary" we must surely add "Republic of Ireland", even though he was born more than a hundred years before "North Tipperary" and several decades before the Republic. "County Tipperary" is the normal point of reference as to where someone "comes from" or was "born in". Brocach (talk) 23:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense. North Tipperary was not "created in 2001". It was created by the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 as the "North Riding of Tipperary", and was renamed in 2001 by the removal of the words "Riding of".

If and when North and South Tipp are abolished, we can review the existence of Category:North Tipperary and Category:South Tipperary, but as of now they still exist. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:21, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not so. The local government bodies established by the 2001 Act did not have the same powers, structures, procedures, obligations and functions as those that existed before the establishment day, even when the name remained unchanged, and in many (other) cases the post-2001 councils did not even have the same boundaries. "North Tipperary" is not the same as "Tipperary (North Riding)", it was not created by the British Parliament in 1898, it came into being as a new legal entity in 2001. "Tipperary (North Riding)" ceased to exist on the establishment day; "North Tipperary" did not exist before it. Are you, BrownHairedGirl, now joining User:Laurel Lodged in advocating the attribution of sportspeople to confections such as "Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown"? Or is it only County Tipperary that is to be set apart by using modern council boundaries, and if so, why? Brocach (talk) 01:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop being silly. We are not talking about local govt powers; we are talking about administrative areas, and the administrative areas have existed since 1899. "North Tipperary" was not created in 2001; it was renamed, and Section 10(4)(a) of the 2001 Act is quite explicit about that.

By your bizarre logic, Cork County Council only came into being in 2001, when it gained its current powers and structures. In fact, local authority powers and responsibilities have changed on many occasions over the years, and change several times every year through Statutory Instruments. They don't cease to exist when that happened. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:16, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PS if you want a secondary source for the fact that it was just a name change, see Local authorities dump out-of-date titles under Act (Irish Independent, 24 December 2001).

In any case, this has not a specific issue relating to Patrick Quinn. It is a general point regarding the category, and per WP:MULTI discussions should be centralised. As you know, there is a centralised discussion on these at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 February 14#Tipperary_sportspeople. Please continue the discussion at that location, and do not repeat your removal of Quinn from Category:Sportspeople from South Tipperary. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:31, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted the nonsense about a person being "from" or "born" in "North Tipperary", etc. Until I see a source, let's use some common sense and use the WP:COMMON terminology for counties. --HighKing (talk) 11:43, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]