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Talk:Patricia Kenworthy Nuckols

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Did you know nomination

[edit]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Eddie891 (talk) 13:36, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Phyllis Stadler, resident of Atlantis
Phyllis Stadler, resident of Atlantis

Created by Cbl62 (talk). Self-nominated at 17:42, 16 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

  • Checking... Nice, a 10-hook DYK! Each article is new enough (created by Cbl62 10–15 January) and long enough (the shortest, Joan Moser, is just over at 1503 characters via prosecount script), 10 QPQ verified. Reviews will take a bit longer. If another editor wants to review some of them, please start from the back and work towards the middle. – Reidgreg (talk) 02:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Query (1–5): Hook is broadly interesting and of good length (about 20 characters under for a multi-article hook, if anyone wants to propose an alt). Of the first five articles, found some typos and some sourcing issues, mostly around birth/death dates. Will provide specific notes with each article below:
    • Patricia Kenworthy Nuckols – The lead needs a citation for her birthdate and birthplace (which isn't in the body). Most of her notability comes from before she was married, so I feel like section WASP service should start with "Patricia Kenworthy" and Field hockey should start with "Kenworthy" (which is covered by present sources). The first mention of "Nuckols" will then need some treatment (having "Patricia Kenworthy Nuckols" in full is probably sufficient and self-explanatory). The first time her height is mentioned, can we use {{convert|5|ft|2|in|m|spell=in}} ? Most importantly, the hook fact she became one of the charter inductees into the USA Field Hockey Hall of Fame needs an inline citation in this article per DYK rules (the source above with ALT0 will do). Done
    • Betty Shellenberger – Need a citation for her birthdate, deathdate and nickname; I suggest using teamusa.org which has all three, but lists her death date as December 30, not 31. Begin section Early years with her full name (first mention in body). Need a citation for the Agnes Irwin School (teamusa or phillylacrosse will do). The second and third paragraphs of Field hockey and military career need citations (phillylacrosse will cover her coaching at Chestnut but not the years. teamusa has her coaching years at Chestnut and is also good for the third paragraph. griffinathletics covers the years coaching badminton and lacrosse). DYK rules require that the hook fact have an inline citation, so add a citation immediately after In 1988, she was one of the charter inductees into the USA Field Hockey Hall of Fame. Done
    • Chickie Geraci Poisson – Need a citation for birthdate (the first Bridgeport News source gives it as June 18, 1931). Otherwise, just her years as team captain: The first Bridgeport News source she was team captain 1958 to 1962, not 1963. Poughkeepsie journal says she was team captain her final four years on the team, playing 1955–1961. That would be 1958 to 1961 (if seasons go over a calendar year, that'd be 1958–59 to 1961–62).
    • Alice Putnam Willetts – The first source is The Swarthmorean not Warthmorean. (Since this is a local publication, I would include the location parameter |location=Swarthmore, Pennsylvania.) Need citation for birthdate, deathdate and nickname, which only appear in lead (Swarthmorean has deathdate and age and nickname; I did not spot her birthdate in the sources). Should have first name and surname on first mention in body. She was inducted to the Lacross hall of fame in 1998, not 1988 (per source). Done
    • Joan Moser – I did not spot her birthdate in any of the sources; this needs a citation. Among the sources, The Morning Call and Central News-Herald are kind of a generic names, so I'd mention their locations: Allentown, Pa, and Perkasie, Pa, respectively.  Done
  • That's the first half. @Cbl62: a little to work on, but generally quite good. – Reidgreg (talk) 18:56, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you for the effort you put into the detailed review. I have addressed and (I believe) resolved the issues that you raised on the first five articles with one exception. While repetition of given and surnames in the first paragraph below the lead may make sense in the case of featured articles, or other articles with lengthy lede sections, I find it to be redundant and unnecessary in the case of "Start" level articles with relatively short lede sections. Let me know if there is anything else, and I look forward to fixing anything that needs fixing in the remaining five articles. Cbl62 (talk) 23:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Query (6–10): Most of these could use some small tweaks, like the first five. The exception is F. Elizabeth Richey which seems to be missing a source; a few statements failed verification.
    • Anne McConaghie Volp – I was thinking this was another one where the article might mention her by her maiden name for notable events before her marriage. Her death date and age can be cited to the first Philadelphia Inquirer article. "Lacrosse" is not mentioned in the first two sources, but is in the third ("field hockey legend") if you could add it as a citation to that sentence. Need a citation for She was also inducted into the Temple University Athletic Hall of Fame in 1975. (The first, second and third sources have it.) I didn't spot her mentioned in the fourth source, "Former field hockey stars". If you want to expand a little, "field hockey star" has that she was undefeated at intercollegiate diving, and "field hockey legend" has that she earned a master's degree.
      I have fixed the issues you raised. Cbl62 (talk) 00:03, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Done[reply]
    • F. Elizabeth Richey – Quite a few citation and verification issues with this one; a source may have been misplaced somewhere along the way. I don't see the Vassar source verifying anything in Early years or the third paragraph of Career. Cite birthdate (Poughkeepsie) and deathdate (Vasser). (Poughkeepsie has both but you'd need to pull out a 1988 calendar to find the date of the Wednesday prior to publication.) She died four months later in May 1988 at age 78. The source says 75, not 78; 75 is consistent with the birthdate and deathdate. as a result of bronchial cancer. Source says only "after a short illness". Poughkeepsie says she retired in 1978; if hired in 1937 then she worked at Vassar for 41 years, not 43. (US Squash specifically says she was there for 41 years.) After graduating from Radcliffe, she worked as a teacher for two years at Pleasantville High School. not in source. Richey was also considered the greatest lacrosse player in the United States. She was selected as an All-American lacrosse player for a record 21 consecutive years. Not in source; mentioned briefly by US Squash. She has been credited with having "created women’s intercollegiate squash". I'd like to see inline attribution for this: "She has been credited by US Squash with having..." or somesuch. At Radcliffe, she was the captain of the basketball team. I didn't find this in either of the sources cited for that paragraph, but it is in US Squash. Can the sentence She also received a master's degree from Columbia University. be moved to the end of that paragraph (cited to Poughkeepsie), to keep it a little more chronological? (For possible expansion: Vassar has her as a professor emeritus following retirement. US Squash has more on her involvement in developing squash tournaments, and her induction into the lacrosse hall of fame.)
      Fixed. Cbl62 (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Thanks for adding the additional source. Done
    • Adele Boyd – The text of the USAFH source is credited to the Philadelphia Inquirer article by Bonnie Cook, so you might want to just use the latter (although I appreciate it's easier to scan the text in USAFH). She was a member of the U.S. women's national field hockey team from 1959 to 1967. Just noting that the Cook source says 1959–1967 but USAFH has 1961–1967 in the lede before the by-line. PI88 says 1959–1966 (probably meaning to include the 1966–67 season). Not sure which you'd want to use, if USAFH is a more authoritative source, or perhaps note the discrepancies among sources in a footnote. Death date and death age (85) is in USAFH/Cook. Birth year is in Lownes. Lownes is a primary source so I would suggest using it sparingly: She also played for U.S. touring teams that played in Great Britain in 1962, Jamaica in 1964, and Germany in 1967. can be stated as "England in 1962, Jamaica in 1965, and Germany in 1967" and cited to "23 women become first to enter U.S. 'Hall'" and She was also a member of the Philadelphia Association team from 1953 to 1967. can be cited to USAFH/Cook. Boyd was also the author of two books: Field Hockey: The Coach and Player and Position Play by the Defense: The Fullbacks. It'd be nice to have another source for the books. I found at eBay a copy of Field Hockey: The Coach and the Player by Mildred Barnes for sale; a picture of the contents on the inside dust jacket shows one chapter "Position Play by the Defense" written by Adele Boyd and two others. So rather than having written two books, it seems that she wrote numerous magazine articles on sports, one of which was expanded into a chapter of this book. I don't know how you want to write that up... maybe "Boyd authored numerous sports articles for magazines, and co-wrote a chapter of Mildred Barnes's book Field Hockey: The Coach and the Player." (Can cite that to Chestnut Hill Local and cite the book itself).
      I've implemented your suggested changes. Cbl62 (talk) 21:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Done[reply]
    • Ruth Heller Aucott – AGF for the second page of ABJ89 (I may have used up my free views at Newspapers.com). Need a source for her birthdate. The closest that I spotted was ABJ89 (first page) which stated she was 21 in 1955.
      I am confident I would not have added a precise DOB if it wasn't sourced, but I am unable to find the source at the moment. Not sure if DYK rules require sourcing for DOB, but if you would like I could just substitute "c. 1934". 20:31, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
      Because this is a BLP, I feel that the birthdate should probably be removed without a source. WP:BLPPRIVACY recommends to be cautious and not state a living person's birthdate unless it has been "widely published". – Reidgreg (talk) 23:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Done[reply]
    • Phyllis Stadler Lyon – AGF for offline source (yearbook, minimal use). She compiled more activity points than any other girl in the school's history. Should this say "She had then compiled" or "At her graduation she had compiled" or somesuch? The 1952 source can't account for anyone who graduated afterwards. Need a citation for her birth year (mentioned only in infobox).
      I tweaked the statement re points. As for her birth, I've found no source for her year of birth, and we can only estimate based on her years of school attendance -- thus the "circa" date. To avoid any issue, I removed the approximate birth year. Cbl62 (talk) 20:23, 27 January 2021 (UTC) Done[reply]
  • That's it for me for today. Hopefully my notes above are coherent. – Reidgreg (talk) 23:18, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Reidgreg: I think I've fixed the issues you raised. Cbl62 (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Phyllis Stadler.png
US WASP Patricia Kenworthy Nuckols.png (WASP pilot)
@Cbl62: Thanks! I've verified your changes and it looks good. Please do consider the BLPPRIVACY concern noted above. Some of this may go beyond DYK rules but I wanted to be thorough, as I don't like them being pulled from the queue or at Main Page errors. I've put the two images beside each other at 120px. I'd approve either, though personally I feel Stadler displays better. Oh, I meant to look for some possibilities to substitute for Stadler's name in the hook. compiled more activity points than any other girl in the school's history is interesting if it could be stated succinctly. What about calling her an "Atlantean" for her residence of Atlantis, Florida? Though I don't have a source that they're called that, so maybe "resident of Atlantis"? The caption might then have to be "Phyllis Stadler resides in Atlantis, Florida". There's nothing wrong with using her name, of course. – Reidgreg (talk) 23:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I appreciate the thoroughness of the review. The articles are stronger for it. Will remove Aucott's DOB. And I like your suggestion on piping Stadler's name and changed accordingly. Cbl62 (talk) 23:34, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're very welcome. I applaud the work on this clever multiple-article hook. I know that the process becomes increasingly complex as you add more articles. My biggest is a five-article hook; I hope to do better this year and was interested in following this nomination.
Darn, I forgot something, but it's a quick fix. The hook fact has to be in the article with an inline citation at the end of the sentence. I forgot to check that the way they're described in the hook is cited at the sentence level. To meet this qualification, in two cases those sentences need a ref to the same citation which follows. (I know it looks like overcitation.) The articles which need this are Betty Shellenberger (marine) and Adele Boyd (Ursinus professor). For Chickie Geraci Poisson ("Chickie"), if you move the first citation in the lead outside of the parenthesis, that will cover her nickname as well as the contents of the parentheses. (I wouldn't fault you for removing the 'extra' citations after the articles have moved off the main page.) – Reidgreg (talk) 01:00, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done and thanks again. These ladies, many of whom starred in multiple sports, were among the top athletes of their generations, but are not well known due to the lack of coverage given to women's sports in these earlier days. I look forward to seeing them featured on the main page. Cbl62 (talk) 04:56, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Done[reply]
Yeah, it's tough. The (ice) hockey hall of fame didn't induct any women until 2010, and players of the women's professional leagues aren't considered notable unless they have outside achievements (eg: Olympics). – Reidgreg (talk) 14:20, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Approve ALT0: All articles new enough, long enough, within policy, neutral, well-cited and free of copyvio. AGF for minimal use of a couple offline sources. Hook is under 200 characters (discounting text for second to tenth bolded articles), well formatted, neutral and broadly interesting. Ten QPQ verified. Image tagged with free license and displays well. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:20, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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