Talk:Paterson Clarence Hughes/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cliftonian (talk · contribs) 06:55, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Per a nice little nudge on my talk page from Ian, I am going to review this article as if it were at FAC. Looks very good from first glance, and I look forward to reading. I will note thoughts as I go through, starting with the body and coming back to the lead at the end.

Early life

• Is Numeralla a suburb, a village, a farm or what? There's no explanatory wikilink so a word or two to explain would help.
  • Sources don't say but as Cooma is a country town and Numeralla is "near" there, I think we can safely assume village -- but I guess that's OR. ;-) Wouldn't be a farm as the name would be in quotes or italics. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:04, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
    • OK —  Cliftonian (talk)  02:23, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• When we say "in a family of twelve" we mean ten children and the two parents, right? Or that there were 12 kids?
• Non-Australians probably won't know who Banjo Peterson was (I didn't, I'm ashamed to say). Just saying he was a bush poet should be enough.
• "young Pat seemed to inherit a talent for writing from his father" says who?
• "becoming prefect in 1932" shouldn't this be "a prefect" as there are many of them? When we say vice captain, we mean like deputy head boy, right?
  • Think I've taken care of these. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:04, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Ta —  Cliftonian (talk)  02:23, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I have to run out now, I'll finish this later. —  Cliftonian (talk)  06:55, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

No prob, tks for taking this on! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:04, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Please accept my apologies for the delay. I'll continue from where I left off.

• Is the Australian term "graduation" like in America? I'd have thought you guys would say "passing out" like in Britain.
  • I know, once I'd have expected "passing out" too but almost all the Australian sources use "graduation" for our military colleges (and a good many use "World War II" rather than "Second World War"; perhaps the post-War American influence -- at least we don't say "graduating" from high school yet!) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• Do we know why he chose to transfer to the British service? From what we describe of him, and speaking from my own personal experience, it seems to me that he may have done it for the adventure of it. (This would seem to fit with his insistence on keeping the Australian uniform while in British service.) What do the sources say?
  • I omitted for brevity/flow but let me take another look and see if I can work it in. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Early RAF service

• We mention that "Like some of his compatriots" he refused to switch his Australian uniform for a British one. How common was this? Was it considered an act of defiance at all? Probably not if he was able to do it without problems. (From my own experience in Israel it was generally accepted that officers and enlisted personnel transferred between units would keep at least some distinctive uniform elements from the former unit.)
  • My available sources don't seem go into that. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• Why did he not want to fly bombers?
  • The source just said he was "disappointed" so I didn't feel there was much more to be said than what's in the article now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• Perhaps identify Bungay as a historian—my first thought was that he was a fellow pilot.
  • Fair enough. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Battle of Britain

• We have already introduced Kay; we don't need to introduce her with her surname again here in my opinion. "He married Kay" is enough. (the unfortunate rhyming of "The same day, he married Kay" can be avoided by changing the former clause to "That morning/afternoon" or similar, if we know when the ceremony took place)
  • Yes, unfortunately we don't have the time of day so I think I'd rather repeat the surname than introduce the rhyme if it's okay... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• register office, not registry office
  • Tks. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• After the transfer to Middle Wallop, were they still under No. 10 Group?
  • Yes, I generally only mention the group when it changes -- I did think of putting it in here but it kind of broke up the sentence for me. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• "Almost immediately that Hughes landed the Luftwaffe bombed the airfield;" suggest reword, perhaps replace "that" with "after"
  • Good, tks. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• During the FAC for Caesar Hull I think we decided Luftwaffe was a common enough term in English that it didn't need italics; I do not mind either way but just thought I'd mention it. Either way is fine in my opinion but we must be consistent
  • I've consistently used italics so might leave it and see if there's further comment down the track. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• "One of his victims on 5 September may have been Oberleutnant Franz von Werra" who suggests this? How likely is it considered?
  • Each of cited sources says so but nobody seems certain -- this is pretty well how they couch it. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• "His Spitfire crashed in a field on the border of Sundridge and Bessels Green" I'd prefer "between" rather than "on the border of", as it doesn't seem to me likely two English villages would have a particularly formal border line between them (at least not at this time)
  • Okay. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Legacy

• "This tally puts him among the top ten Battle of Britain aces" Including the Germans, or only from the Allied side? (or are the top ten the same in each case?)
  • Good point! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• "I wept until I could cry no more". I'd recommend an inline citation after this direct quote.
  • No prob. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
• "Hughes is commemorated at Christ's Church, Kiama," since we are switching suddenly back to Australia I would recommend prefixing this with "Back in Australia", "Back in New South Wales" or similar
  • Okay. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Notes and references

All look good to me. Note that you have a blend of ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 tags here; perhaps convert them all to ISBN-13 using the ISBN converter before FAC.

• Some I think are only 10 but I gathered we should use 13 whenever available; will try that converter though -- tks. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Cites reliable sources, where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   I saw no problems.

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Images well chosen and all properly licensed.

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   This is a wonderful, moving account that I have no hesitation about promoting to GA status. The above comments I leave to help with the article's development on the road to FAC. Thank you, Ian, for this fine piece of work and for drawing my attention to it. —  Cliftonian (talk)  02:23, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

   Too kind, John -- thank you very much for taking the time to review! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)