Talk:Paris Métro Line 12/Archive 1

Archive 1

Merge proposal from Jules Joffrin (Paris Métro)

I propose we merge in the station articles for this line, into this article. Please see Jules Joffrin (Paris Métro) for example. Alan.ca 00:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - consider merging to Paris Métro stations in 18e Arrondissement - what to do with stations on more than one line? Not to mention RER!! — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 01:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you cite examples of stations that are on more than one line? Alan.ca 02:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not difficult - there must literally be dozens, e.g. Place des Fêtes (Paris Métro) — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 03:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Pigalle (Paris Métro) and Marcadet - Poissonniers (Paris Métro) on Ligne 12 — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 03:25, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I was second-guessing that this would be applied across the Métro, and not just one line... — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 03:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Well that would be a reasonable guess. I guess that's a separate issue. Maybe the smaller lines could have all of their stations under the one line article. As information on a station grew, it would be possible to split it off as that occurred. Alan.ca 03:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Not a separate issue at all, but integral as one of the options... if we are to delete/merge some stations, why not others. Merging by area is the most workable solution IMO if merging is in fact the way to go forward. — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 04:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, can you be more specific? You're suggesting that we create a number of new articles named by their physical location and then merge the station articles into them? How would we determine the physical location names? Alan.ca 04:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

:::Simple - Paris is split up into a number of Arrondissements — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 05:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Specific? I was specific in my first post!! If you follow the trail of the myriad discussions you have opened on this subject, you will notice a previous reference of mine to Arrondissements. If you are so keen to voice opinions on WP:Policy, then please back it up by having the due diligence to follow up people's suggestions properly, and not just fly off half-cocked, as you seem to be doing, full of your opinion and interpretation of WP:V etc. without understanding the relaxation that has come about through consensus. — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 05:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this should be merged at all, and I disagree with putting stations into categories based on Arrondissement. I think it's a good idea but doesn't follow the logic with which the Paris Metro system is laid out. If there is to be a merge I think a merge by Metro line would be the best solution, but then we'd either be forced to repeat information for stations with more that one metro line, or redirect to the station description on the other line's page... hibou 08:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Oppose — The articles for the various stations should remain separate and not merged. — Grstain | Talk 15:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - The major metro systems all have separate articles for each of their stations. See Piccadilly Circus tube station or Times Square–42nd Street (New York City Subway). - Lincolnite 21:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - Each station has its own history, look and feel Gonioul 01:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

About Sèvres-Croix-rouge station

Both lines 10 and 12 have a Sèvres-Babylone station.As Sèvres-Croix -rouge of line 10 is roughly two hundred yards far from Sèvres-Babylone it was not re-opened after WW2.82.124.207.178 14:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Recommendations

I notice this article is being nominated for GA. I would like to make some recommendations before it is taken up for review.

• The link metro leads to Paris métro. What a metro is may not be clear to a reader unfamiliar with the subject. It may be better to refer to rapid transit or similar somewhere in the article.

I moved the link to metro lines. --Anneyh (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• CMP leads to a disambiguation page instead of a more specific page. What is it?

 Done That's one of Paris rapid transit companies, I have put the right link and explained the acronym. --Anneyh (talk) 15:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• I'm not sure why some train station names like Montparnasse - Bienvenüe and Gare Saint-Lazare are italicized. They look like proper names. Later on there is Gare St. Lazare without the hyphen. There should be consistency in the use of italics and formatting for the same names.

 Done That comes from wp:fr manual of style. I removed the italics. I'm not always sure where to say station vs. the station, some copy-edit is needed there. --Anneyh (talk) 15:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• Don't use double hyphens like "--". Use the Insert tool below or ALT+0150 and ALT+0151 to add proper en-dashes and em-dashes.

 Done There was only one, I removed it. --Anneyh (talk) 15:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• Some hyphens should be dashes.
• Reference section should come ahead of the Bibliography section.

 Done --Anneyh (talk) 15:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• Many of the referenced sources should be translated into English and their details filled out.

Almost there, I just need to check the edition of one book. --Anneyh (talk) 15:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

 Done --Anneyh (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• According to WP:NONENGEL an external link should have the language icons (e.g. (in French)) following the external link not in front of it.

 Done --Anneyh (talk) 16:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Good luck with the GAN. Lambanog (talk) 13:12, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Sources in English

I found the following:

• Evenson, Norma (1979). Paris: A Century of Change, 1878–1978. New Haven and London: Yale University Press. pp. xxvii + 382. ISBN 978-0300026672.
• Pike, David Lawrence (2005). Subterranean cities: the world beneath Paris and London, 1800-1945. Cornell University Press. p. 355. ISBN 9780801472565.
• López Galviz, Carlos (2009). "The polities of a new technology : Electricity and the city railway in London and Paris, c.1880-1910". Métropoles. Vol. 6. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |accessed on= ignored (help)

I'm not convinced the last one should be used as it doesn't say much about line 12, but it also shows that some sources used in this article are valid secondary sources. The first book is out of press, and I'm considering purchasing the second one (will take two to three weeks though). --Anneyh (talk) 19:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Paris: A Century of Change was published in 1979. It has some good material on the early days of the Métro, but has few specifics on Line 12. I'll do a more thorough reading over the weekend and see if I find anything useful. I've done a basic copyedit; I've tried not to introduce Americanisms into a text written in British usage, but feel free to change if you see something. I've made some notes in edit summaries - the La Chapelle incident in 1944 is not very clear to me. Acroterion _(talk) 18:29, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Traffic data 2005-2010

I've had a look around on www.stif.info and there doesn't appear to be any new figures published since 2005. Is anyone else aware of other sources? Best, --Ktlynch (talk) 00:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Copyright status of first earliest images in the article.

Hello,

As a number of prose and reference formatting issues have been resolved following the GA Review, Anneyh has done some investigation on french wikipedia with the original uploader of the images, who scanned them him self from public RATP documents. I'm trying to verify that they've been released into the public domain.

Otherwise I am going to renominate the article for GA review soon, Anneyh in particular having made so many strong fixes. All comments and suggestions welcomed, needed even. Best, --Ktlynch (talk) 16:25, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind comments. Well, actually my first participation on wp:en was translating Paris Métro Line 8... I stopped when I realised I could not get English references.

I recently figured out that I can probably become a member of the local university library and get access to some books to have references in English... Just before, I bought "Subterranean cities" but I haven't had the time to read it yet, because I'm involved in a wp:fr competition (that ends on November 14th). I should be back in a few days then! --Anneyh (talk) 20:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

New lead image - some proposals

Hello again,

The infobox here is very useful but not particularly beautiful. I suggest, above the infobox, , this picture of a train leaving a station, or , the entrance to Assemblé nationale. I've tried in preview though am not strong enough working with images to get it nice for the lead. Any thoughts? Best, --Ktlynch (talk) 21:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I think we should change the infobox at the project level, the current infobox contains navigation items that should be at the bottom of the page. --Anneyh (talk) 23:28, 11 November 2010 (UTC)