Talk:Palmtop PC

Merging Handheld PC's HatNoted content into non-HatNoted Palmtop PC

The initial move is to a section named: Handheld PC article. (leaving the original article as a REDIRECT) Pi314m (talk) 12:06, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Re-doing the merger

I based what I did on Wiki's
"Full-content paste merger – most content, clean and fast" policy.

The policy. includes placing information on "the source article's talk-page"
I did.

Wiki has a specific template, and this re-do will use it:
{{merged-from|source page name|date}}.

There is another Wiki specification now being included:

"If the content was merged to a single section within the destination page"

#REDIRECT [[<destination page>#<section name>]] 

• From a merge: This is a redirect from a page that was merged into another page. This redirect was kept in order to preserve the edit history of this page after its content was merged into the content of the target page. Please do not remove the tag that generates this text (unless the need to recreate content on this page has been demonstrated) or delete this page.
  • For redirects with substantive page histories that did not result from page merges use {{R with history}} instead.

• To a section: This is a redirect from a topic that does not have its own page to a section of a page on the subject. For redirects to embedded anchors on a page, use {{R to anchor}} instead.

Publish the page, leaving the following edit summary:

(also required by the CC-BY-SA): Merged content to [[<destination page>#<destination section, if applicable>]]. See [[Talk:<merger discussion talk page section>]].

• • • Below, per Wiki's don't shoot ... are the required texts:

{{merged-from|"Handheld PC"|January 18, 2018}} #REDIRECT [[Palmtop PC#Handheld PC article]] {{R from merge}} {{R to section}} /* Merged content to [[Palmtop PC#Handheld PC article]]. See [[Talk:Handheld PC]]. */ {{merged-from|"Palm-size PC"|January 18, 2018}} #REDIRECT [[Palmtop PC#Palm-size PC article]] {{R from merge}} {{R to section}} /* Merged content to [[Palmtop PC#Palm-size PC article]]. See [[Talk:Palm-size PC]]. */ SIGNED: Pi314m (talk) 21:23, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Palmtop PCs and Heldheld PCs were two rather different classes of computers. It does not make any sense to merge them. The merge was undiscussed and there was no consensus for it, so I have restored the well chosen, long established and stable status before your edits. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 10:23, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

So what is the difference? Is an HP95LX a palm top or a handheld? How about a Sharp 3000? ( Two machine I have kicking around the house). Explanation of the difference would be very valuable. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:30, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

The HP 95LX is a so called Palmtop PC (actually, it is one of the machines, that originally defined this class): mostly IBM PC architecture and compatible BIOS, x86 processor (actually machines I am aware of used only 8086/80186 compatible processors, not even 286s), DOS-based with DOS adapted to run from ROM (DIP DOS, OEM MS-DOS, PC DOS, DR PalmDOS, Datalight ROM-DOS and General Software Embedded DOS are the only DOS issues I am aware of having been used in Palmtop PCs), clamshell design, keyboard, monochrome non-backlit display, no harddisk but flash card, battery powered, fully static design with instant on.

I have no personal experience with the Sharp PC-3000, but from what I recall as its specs I would put it into the Palmtop PC class as well.

--Matthiaspaul (talk) 22:05, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

A google for ("HP95LX OR "HP95LXC") ("handheld" OR "palmtop") found Vintage HP 95lx Palmtop PC Handheld Computer | eBay. HP's history writeup (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/museum/personalsystems/0025/0025history.html) said that is was "referred to as a palmtop computer" yet also said that it "quite literally, placed the power of a computer into the palm of your hand." The same writeup refers to a "sophisticated hendheld calculator."

Another "history of" writeup stated "HP's LX series was a successful example of a handheld computer that ran MS-DOS."

As the NYTimes article I cited shows, the terms were intermixed by various parties.

Example: "Vintage HP 95lx Palmtop Pocket Computer 1mb RAM Ms-dos PDA" on an eBay listing.

You may believe that the originals were "stable" - does that make them better off as unconnected partially sourced (if at all) foxholes. Why not restore what I put together and improve upon it? Pi314m (talk) 08:52, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Because it does not make sense to merge two completely different types of machines, one ("Palmtop PC") being IBM PC architecure with 8086/80186 processor and DOS-based, and the other ("Handheld PC") typically not using any IBM-compatible PC architecture at all, typically not using x86 processors (although some may do), and typically being Windows CE based. It's like merging articles about Smartphones and Game boys, both are ultimately computers, but that's about it.

Note that "palmtop computer" and "handheld computer" are just generic descriptions, not specific classes. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 22:05, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

To the public eye, these terms are Porridge, Cholent, Rabbit / rarebit stew:
not much of a distinct identity. Yes, there's mostly-potato cholent, mostly-beans cholent, turkey-instead-of-beef cholent, etc. but . . . I'm doing this with an eye to when cholent-mix is the only type of packaged beans commonly sold (even now, the 3-for sales are on "mix" and not on the component beans). I don't want to edit war - and don't want to fill this space with examples from eBay ads, NYTimes citations, etc. Please dedicate your focus to improving the single article, and yes - more/better citations are best use of valuable contributor time. Pi314m (talk) 16:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

No, this is not how it works! It is good that you are trying to be constructive, but your edits are not. You are already edit-warring over it and if you continue to try to force your undiscussed changes into the articles, this may lead to a block.

Such changes require prior discussion and won't be carried out unless the outcome of such a discussion (after a reasonable amount of time for other editors to see, think about it and react - typically months) would be consensus for a merge. Please note that your bold changes have already caused quite some infrastructural chaos, which other editors had and now again have to clean up. So, stop it! --Matthiaspaul (talk) 22:05, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Per Wiki Help Revert's Manual reverting instructions

UNDID/undo .... Per talk, then address component-bean Wtshymanski & Matthiaspaul concerns @talk: Per Wiki Help:Reverting's "Manal reverting" I am doing this as manual edits: first a simple copy and paste, then a catchup based on manual compares, step by step. Pi314m (talk) 17:01, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's irrelevant at this stage. There is NO CONSENSUS for a merge (regardless of how you do it)!

You can start a merge discussion and if, at the end of this discussion (typically after several months), there will be consensus for a merge, we can carry it out. Otherwise, the articles stay separate.

You are mixing up several terms which have little to do with each other. The term "Palmtop PC" was coined by Hewlett-Packard for a specific type of machines- It does not describe the same type of machine as "Handheld PC", a term used by Microsoft for a rather different type of machines (which BTW was a misnomer anyway, as it does not describe PCs, but Windows CE-based machines, but that's Microsoft...) And terms like "palmtop computer" and "handheld computer" are generic terms, they can mean "anything".

--Matthiaspaul (talk) 22:05, 23 January 2018 (UTC)