Talk:Palmerston North

The Square

The mention here of "lakes" may be a bit OTT, even the Council refer to it as a Joanna Mcdougall duck pond:). Should there be mention of the i site? What about discussion of the recent redevelopment and focus on community safety?Nzlbob23 (talk) 08:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Economy

This sentence (The city is home to more than 70 major educational and research institutions, including New Zealand's fastest expanding university, Massey; the Massey University Sport and Recreation Institute (situated at Massey University campus, Turitea); UCOL - Universal College of Learning and Linton Military Camp.) is a bit laboured and does not quite make sense. I'm guessing it wants to cover the key institutions in the city? Nzlbob23 (talk) 08:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

City

Can people source whether pammy is 11th largest or 6th largest. I am getting mixed results all over the internet. 05:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)~~

Climate

Where does the figure of 'power for 90,000 homes' come from? Seems somewhat high given the population of the city is 72,600. According to http://www.trustpower.co.nz/Content/Generation/WindFarms/Tararua.aspx the wind farm generates 67.98MW (30,000 homes). Adrian.baker 02:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

The City

I think the 'promotional' tone of this section is somewhat excessive and should be toned down. Factually it's fine, but it perhaps shouldn't read like a tourist guide: "beautiful and peaceful with an abundance of stunning old trees", "glorious autumn leaves", "excellent educational faciliaties" (sic), "vibrancy and exciting youth culture", "beautiful parklands...beautiful gardens...stunning display of seasonal cherry blossoms". True or not, the overall effect is of a brochure rather than an encyclopedia article.Adrian.baker 01:41, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Just remove the hyperbolic words.-gadfium 06:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I did this a while back.Aaron Lawrence 18:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Z

This may sound retarded, but I read somewhere that there is some sort of council incentive for businesses to have 'Z' in their name. This srt of explains why a lot of motels have 'Z's, in some cases up to 3. Anyone know about this? --130.216.191.184 03:27, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Palmerston North Central Normal School

This school is listed in the article, and I can find a few references to it on Google, but there's no mention of it at the Ministry of Education website [1]. Has it changed names or closed?-gadfium 05:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[2] - still open to the best of my knowledge. And it appears on the page you link to as well, between Carncot and Cloverlea. Ziggurat 08:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah. I thought that Palmerston North was part of the name. Not thinking straight tonight.-gadfium 09:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I live in the UK and I have been to Feilding several times. I really like it; it's calm, peaceful, little traffic, wide roads and so restful.

I have read on the website that it is possible topurchase bricks and tiles in the renovations that are in progress (or have they finished?). I'd like to do this. Could someone geet back to me?

My e-mail address is <email removed to avoid spam>

Thanks Clare

This page is to discuss improvements to the Palmerston North article. Your message is not appropriate here. I have also removed your email address to reduce the likelihood of spammers using it.-gadfium 23:03, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Māori name in infobox

Just to clarify to avoid confusion, the Māori name given in the infobox reflects Māori-language usage. The Māori-language name for the city - Te Papa-i-oea - is the name for Palmerston North recognised by the Māori Language Commission, and is also the nationally recognised common name for the city among Māori speakers throughout the nation, and on national media including Māori TV. This Māori-language usage does not relate to or depend on the names used in local body elections. Kahuroa 11:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• Does anyone actually use this Māori name? (I've never heard of it in my 28 years in Palmerston North)
• The "common name for the city among Māori speakers" is Palmerston North.^rossnixon 02:00, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ross. The official place name of the city in Maori, according to the Maori Language Commission, is "Te Papa-i-oea". This name can be used in postage, etc. Since in New Zealand both Maori and English are official and of equal standing, the Maori name should also be included in the infobox. Ronline ✉ 11:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Official motto?

is now, what? Was? Please correct our article.84.13.10.123 12:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Palmam Qui Meruit Ferat - it appears on the coat of arms of the city 222.155.164.33 (talk) 11:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Update: I have now researched and clarified what Lord Nelson's motto was here:http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Horatio_Nelson%2C_1st_Viscount_Nelson#Armorial_bearings so would someone please amend the relevant section of this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.10.123 (talk) 16:31, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

New motto? "The best lovers in New Zealand" see [3] ^rossnixon 01:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The new city motto seems to be "Palmerston north; Young Heart, Easy Living" Wikiwikwsaywha (talk) 22:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Listing schools

There is no need to list every single school in a town. this is not consistent with other locality articles. Michellecrisp (talk) 03:57, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Methinks the list will be returning - from the following discussion it was resolved that most primary and intermediate schools are insufficiently notable for their own article, but will be covered in the article on their locality. dramatic (talk) 02:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit behind schedule on implementing this.-gadfium 00:46, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

History

There is no real mention of the origin of the settlers of PN in the history section. From what I read here: http://www.geocities.com/scanmanawatu/ they were Scandinavians? This does make sense considering the location of PN and the timing of the settlement of PN (and other details too such as "A township was laid out by J.T. Stewart", who was one of the main guys who encouraged many Scandinavian settlers to come to NZ. If I recall correctly, it was back last year when I was researching up the details of immigration to Norsewood and Dannevirke at Te Papa, so my memory might be sketchy). Mathmo ^Talk 01:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

More pages I've came across: http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/NewZealandPeoples/Scandinavians/1/en http://www.angelfire.com/ar/arrolfamily/Jensen.html http://www.teara.govt.nz/1966/M/MonradDitlevGothard/MonradDitlevGothard/en http://www.geocities.com/scandannevirke/ (seems clear enough from many sources the founders of PN were Scandinavians) http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/norwegian_settl.asp?articleid=18&zoneid=17 Mathmo ^Talk 02:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Gangs

Crime is widespread in Palmerston North, and although there have been substantial drops in the amount of crime, Gang culture is still evident in today's society. The Palmerston North council have stated that the media has had a particularly bad influence on the city's tourism, because of the reported crime. They have taken steps to attempt to eliminate such media reports, a concept widely known as propaganda.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.212.81 (talk • contribs) 06:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC

I like many no doubt were unaware that reporting on an encyclopedic entry by a third party free and independent press/paper is considered propaganda. The article linked to (links don't seem to function) mentions that "City council executive support general manager Jane Julian said the council had altered some unsubstantiated claims and deleted a gang subheading on the page." is this not the very idea of Wikipedia... to alter unsubstantiated claims and present concepts and information that reflect fact, that are fair, balanced and well sourced? under that obligation how can such editing be considered propaganda?Wikiwikwsaywha (talk) 05:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

We have a current paragraph about the gang problem which certainly existed in the city in the early part of this century. The paragraph asserts but doesn't cite that the problem goes back much further, and I would have no objection to any reputable editor removing this assertion if they consider it incorrect (finding a source for it if it is correct would good too).

I see the sentence has been modified as I type this.

Hamish-r suggested in an edit summary that the material on gangs might be better moved to the history section. However, I understand the problems are ongoing, so even if we move the material on the early 2000s to history, there still needs to be a mention of them under crime. The material would also fit poorly in the history section, which doesn't cover much history post World War II.

I think the movement of the material to a subsection of crime is probably a better solution.gadfium 02:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the sentence "Gang-related violence, often not reported to police and so doesn't effect statistics, is widespread" please refer to the Wikipedia section on verifiability, (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability) Note: Exceptional claims require exceptional sources

surprising or apparently important claims not covered by mainstream sources;

reports of a statement by someone that seems out of character, embarrassing, controversial, or against an interest they had previously defended;

claims that are contradicted by the prevailing view within the relevant community, or which would significantly alter mainstream assumptions, especially in science, medicine, history, politics, and biographies of living persons. This is especially true when proponents consider that there is a conspiracy to silence them.

As such I think the prevailing view of residents is not in favour of the statement, unless it can be referenced and sourced in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines.-Wikiwikwsaywha (talk) 03:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I removed that statement at about the same time as you posted this.

There has been a discussion at the New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board about the crime and gangs section in this article. It has failed to reach a consensus, but in the meantime the paragraph on gangs has been significantly trimmed.

This section should be a discussion of crime as an overal concept. Minor incidents of gang related activity do not contribute to encycopedic knowledge in relation to Palmerston North. Gang related crime is insignificant in crime statistics and I believe it to be unencyclopedic to discuss it. The crime rate in Palmerston North is relevent, major incidents of national significance are important but overal gang related activity has not place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.136.105 (talk) 04:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

An article in the Manawatu Standard, Wikipedia entries slag off Palmerston North has led to frequent blanking of sections of the article and addition of such unsourced material as is complained of above, so I have semi-protected the article for the next week.-gadfium 03:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I think this section reaches Wikipedia guidelines on quality, sourcing and intent re. encyclopedic, and is a truer reflection of the on the ground situation. Wikiwikwsaywha (talk) 05:35, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

References

Council Removal of Information

The city council has been removing information that *seems* to make Palmerston North sound like a bad place. This has been factual information about crime and data about Gangs which could have been appropriate for the article. This could create an image for the city that is untrue. For this reason the under-dispute tag has been added. owenw 1:53pm, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Crime info

I've removed some crime info, since it seems to offer undue weight to one incident, which is not notable: I don't understand why one crime has been singled out. We could just as easily mention the Lundy murder, the recent sword attack, or the current spate of arson. Every town has crime. (And for the record, I don't live in Palmy). More general statistics are relevant. Kauri Gumdigger (talk) 06:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It's a representative incident, and one that triggered further incidents. If we listed every shooting that occured, that would be undue weight. For the most recent incident that I am aware of, see Witnesses sought after shooting(link provided to me by User:Phorm))-gadfium 09:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Agreeing with gadfium, it's a significant event that should be listed/mentioned at least. (owenw) 10:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.20.159 (talk)

john cleese

since a 404 page is the best source, please delete the entire john cleese section 174.21.26.188 (talk) 13:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Both the references for that section still appear to work.-gadfium 18:24, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

No violence ? people safe ?

Hi all

I am a bit concerned that the pages have been taken over and dumbed down by the council

These edits were done around June 2009 and yet after the crime section was reduced to the state it is in now after the council admitted they had edited wikipedia, Wikipedia entries slag off Palmerston North, to dumb down the negative aspect of the section we had these goings on :-

[4] [5] [6] [7]

It must be said that the figures do indeed show a downward trend up to the end of 2008 but some of these goings on make it sound like the area was still undergoing severe problems from gang violence. I would say that any tourist has the right to be informed, as does anyone wishing to perhaps move to these areas, yet with incidents such as the one where people are being attacked infront of a cafe in broad daylight in a town centre it seems that perhaps the dumbing down has been too great.

I urge members of the NZ wiki to sort it out and police themselves to include a small amount of the back story leading up to the clean up process which seems to be well underway, Mongrel Mob gang headquarters seized & [8], as those goings on in 2009 which led to the removal of the material seem to have been censorship of the worst kind

thanks

Chaosdruid (talk) 06:21, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Suburbs

I'm adding demographics to articles on the suburbs of Palmerston North. While the exact boundaries of suburbs are not well defined in New Zealand, the statistical areas used by the 2018 census don't always match up very well to the suburbs as given on Google Maps. You can see the statistical areas at [9]. I often find the division of areas by Fire and Emergency seem more logical [10] but I'm limited to matching the statistical areas to the suburbs.

The suburbs on the west side of the city according to my understanding are Westbrook, Highbury and Awapuni. The statistical areas which obviously correspond to these are Westbrook, Highbury East, Awapuni North and Awapuni South. There's also Park West, which I'm inclined to include in Highbury, and Maraetarata, which I'm inclined to include with Awapuni. Does anyone think Park West and Maraetarata are suburbs in their own right? The tricky one is the statistical area of Pioneer West, which runs north-south on the western side of all three suburbs, but is not as far west as Longburn. I've included it with Westbrook, but I don't feel it's a particularly good fit. To the west of Pioneer West and extending north to include Bunnythorpe is the statistical area of Newbury, which includes some of the area I think most people would call Newbury, but seems to encompass "rural(ish) land on the west and north of the Palmerston North city area". Should I merge the demographics for Pioneer West in with Newbury instead? I welcome some local knowledge, as I don't know Palmy very well (although I have been there in the last month). Pinging Its-mrb, Jevon, and Ollieinc, as you seem to be local editors.

I expect to have questions about other areas in Palmerston North over the next couple of weeks.-gadfium 04:39, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Any guidance on the suburbs south of the Manawatu River? There's Linton Military Camp which corresponds nicely to the Statistical unit of Linton Camp. Then there's an area east of that including Massey University's Manawatū Campus, which Statistics New Zealand calls Turitea, but the actual locality of Turitea is a few kilometres south-east of this and not within the boundaries of that statistical unit. Fire & Emergency call the area Massey University, which makes sense, but the article on Massey University covers the University and its several campuses and would be a poor fit for suburb demographics. My inclination is to create an article called Massey University (suburb) or Massey University, Palmerston North with hatnotes between that and the university article.

East of the university campus is an area called Summerhill or Fitzherbert, but the statistical unit is called Poutoa. I'd be happy to fold that into our very stubby article on Fitzherbert. Further east is Aokautere, which Statistics NZ divides into Aokautere and Aukautere Rural statistical areas. I could merge the two, as Fire & Emergency does, or list them separately within the Aokautere article. See Mangawhai#Demographics for an example where I've included two statistical areas seperately (not merged) in a single article.

Finally, there's a large area of rural land south of these but still within Palmerston North's boundary called Pihauatua. Fire & Emergency call this Linton, so I'm happy to place this in the Linton, New Zealand article.

Any suggestions welcome.-gadfium 04:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

My work on Palmerston North suburbs is complete for now, but I'm happy to revisit it if necessary.-gadfium 04:43, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

---

Hi gadfium.

Apologies for slow reply. My thoughts below:

• Agree with including Park West with Highbury and Maraetarata with Awapuni. Neither of these are known as suburbs in their own right. I have sometimes heard people refer to the area around Slacks Road and Long Melford Road as Riverdale, most likely due to the name of the school and park in that area. Mostly though it is used by real estate agents etc. and most people wouldn't necessarily think of it as a separate suburb in it's own right, but more as an area within Awapuni (if that makes sense).
• None of the statistical areas of Pioneer West, Newbury and Kauwhata really align comfortable with any particular locality. I think your approach of adding Pioneer west to Westbrook (but highlighting the fact that statistical area doesn't necessarily align with the specific locality) is the best approach.
• South of the river, Massey University isn't considered a suburb in any way. Most of the area covered by the Turitea statistical unit is land owned by Massey University (as they own a large amount of land around the university campus, used as training farms). Therefore including this information with the university wouldn't necessarily be considered incorrect.
• Including Poutoa in the Fitzherbert page is correct. Summerhill was the informal name for the area before the official name Fitzherbert was created hence the overlap.
• Showing Aokautere as two areas for demographics is sensible, although merging them would probably also work as the populations are very similar.

--Its-mrb (talk) 02:00, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. It seems like most of my choices have been reasonably sensible. For the land around Massey University, I have already created Massey University, Palmerston North, and while I understand that's not really considered a suburb, neither I suspect is Linton Military Camp. I've taken it out of the list of suburbs navigation box and the suburb category. I can also change the infobox to say "Settlement" rather then "Suburb". Perhaps a better name for the article would be Massey Farms, which according to https://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/explore/departments/school-agriculture-environment/school-agriculture-environment_home.cfm have eight farms on 2000 hectares, but that is about twice the area of this statistical unit.-gadfium 02:37, 1 May 2021 (UTC)