Talk:Palm oil/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Revisions for New regulations and Malaysia

Hi, I have prepared two revisions for this article which I would like to present here. I have prepared these revisions on behalf of the Malaysian Palm Oil Council, so I won't be making these changes myself, and invite other editors to review them. While I am new to this article I have been involved in discussion on theSocial and environmental impact of palm oil, Palm kernel oil and Elaeis talk pages. My goal here is the same as with those pages: to update information and correct inaccuracies.

The first request addresses the information on food label regulations in theMarket section. Currently this information is separated out by a bold text heading "New regulations in 2014". I would like to suggest adding the formatting to make this a subsection in order for it to appear in the Contents box, and renaming to "Food label regulations", so that more information about regulations may be added in the future. As it stands now, the title is limiting. I have also located a source for to support this information, and have slightly revised the wording. I think it is important to point out that all vegetable fats must be identified, not just palm oil. Here is what I suggest:

New text for New regulations in 2014

Food label regulations Currently, palm oil may be listed as "vegetable fat" or "vegetable oil" on food labels in theEuropean Union (EU). Beginning in 2015, food packaging in the EU will no longer be allowed to use the generic terms "vegetable fat" or "vegetable oil" in the ingredients list. Food producers will be required to list the specific type of vegetable fat used, including palm oil. References

I have also revised the Malaysia section to provide more current production and employment figures. One detail I was not able to find a reference for is that 60% of palm oil exports are shipped to China, the EU, Pakistan, the U.S. and India. I was not able to find either a reference or a replacement figure for this information, so I have removed it. This revision also includes a trimmed down version of the details regarding Sime Darby Berhad, which is currently written in a promotional way. To this I have added information about FELDA, Malaysia's other major palm oil plantation operator.

Here is what I have prepared for this section.

New text for Malaysia

Malaysia In 2012, Malaysia, the world's second largest producer of palm oil, produced 18.79 million tonnes of crude palm oil on roughly5,000,000 hectares (19,000 sq mi) of land. Though Indonesia produces more palm oil, Malaysia is the world's largest exporter of palm oil having exported 18 million tonnes of palm oil products in 2011. China, Pakistan, the European Union, India and the United States are the primary importers of Malaysian palm oil products. In 2012, the Malaysian palm oil industry employed an estimated 491,000 workers. Malaysia's Sime Darby is the largest listed palm oil company globally, based on plantation area and fresh fruit bunch production. The company was created through a Malaysian government initiated merger in December 2006. The world's second-largest oil palm plantation company, Felda Global Ventures Holdings (FELDA), is also based in Malaysia. In 2012, the company held its initial public offering, which was the second largest that year, after Facebook, raising a total of RM9.93 billion. References

Thanks in advance for reviewing these. I hope another editor will be able to make these changes. If you have any questions or concerns about what I have prepared please let me know. I'll respond here to any comments. YellowOwl (talk) 22:59, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Both look like substantial improvements. Let's see what others think. --Ronz(talk) 17:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

It might be useful to follow WP:DR in getting more responses before we change anything.WP:THIRD might work. --Ronz (talk) 21:12, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi again Ronz. I've posted a request for a third opinion on the WP:THIRD page as you suggested. Hopefully we'll hear from another editor soon. If not, I hope you'll be willing to make the edit yourself, or perhaps you know other editors who might be interested in this topic. YellowOwl (talk) 20:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I think the third opinion should be someone who's not me. It would be for the best in terms of appearing transparent. Silverseren^C 00:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request ( Not a disagreement but we need a third opinion on a suggested COI edit. ):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Palm oil and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

Reviewing the proposed edits, the references provided all appear to be reliable sources, and the wording appears to be neutral; therefore, I would say that the proposed edits would be OK to conduct in the article space.RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 21:01, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 04:22, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and incorporated the information into the article, minus the sentence on the FELDA ipo, which has almost nothing to do with the main topic of Palm oil. --Ronz(talk) 04:40, 19 February 2013 (UTC)--Ronz (talk) 04:40, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Ronz and RightCowLeftCoast. Ronz, I see why you removed the IPO information, that seems fine to me and since the edits are done I have marked the template above as answered.YellowOwl (talk) 20:47, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Palm Oil TV

I added to external links: * Palm Oil TV - The latest research and production news about the palm oil industry. Because there seems to be a lack of web sites in the external links section, showing balanced information about the wildlife management struggles with the expansion of the Palm oil industry. Smeckleburger(talk) 12:04, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the previous editor who deleted that link as spam. I do not agree that the word "balance" has any place in a description of that web page. Sminthopsis84(talk) 15:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

It's a badly thrown together group blog as far as I can tell. I don't think it has any place in Wikipedia. --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Further revisions: Social and Environmental

{{request edit}}

Thanks again for the help with the previous request. I appreciate the help from everyone who took the time to review and especially from Ronz to make the edits.

For the next request I've prepared a revision to the Social andEnvironmental sections. I believe that both of these sections are too long, considering much of this information is covered in the longer and more detailedSocial and environmental impact of palm oil article. I have rewritten both of these sections so that they summarize the information contained in the main article. In the process of shortening these sections I have removed dead links and other inappropriate references.

For the Social section I have tried to provide a more balanced overview of the topic. I have removed the information on the Presbyterian Disaster Assistance Food Security Program and the Magbenteh hospital in Sierra Leone. The current links supporting this information no longer work and I have been unable to find reliable replacement references to verify the information.

Here is what I suggest for that section:

New text for Social

Social Main article: Social and environmental impact of palm oil The palm oil industry has had both positive and negative impacts on workers, indigenous peoples and residents of palm oil-producing communities. Palm oil production provides employment opportunities, and has been shown to improve infrastructure, social services and reduce poverty. However, in some cases, oil palm plantations have developed lands without consultation or compensation of the indigenous people occupying the land, resulting in social conflict. The use of illegal immigrantsin Indonesia has also raised concerns about working conditions within the palm oil industry. Some social initiatives use palm oil cultivation as part of poverty alleviation strategies. Examples include the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation's hybrid oil palm project in WesternKenya, which improves incomes and diets of local populations, and Malaysia's Federal Land Development Authority and Federal Land Consolidation and Rehabilitation Authority, which both support rural development. References

The edits to the environmental section are more significant. Overall, I have aimed to summarize the section and remove information which is too detailed to include here and is covered in detail in the the Social and environmental impact of palm oil article. Here is a summary of the main changes:

• I removed several references that did not support information in the section or were unrelated to palm oil, but retained as many references as I could that do support information in this section.
• I removed mention of Rainforest Rescue in this section because the references used do not support their inclusion. However, I was able to replace Rainforest Rescue with Friends of the Earth based on a New York Times article I found.
• This section currently contains information on the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil. This information is covered in the RSPO section further down in this article so I have reduced it down to just a mention of the organization. However, information on the RSPO trademark is not included in the RSPO section, so it should be moved either there or into the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil article.
• To add balance to this section I have added in information on the response to environmental criticisms from palm oil producers.

This what I suggest for the Environmental section:

New text for Environmental

Environmental Main article: Social and environmental impact of palm oil Palm oil cultivation has been criticized for impacts on the natural environment, including:deforestation, loss of natural habitats, which has threatened critically endangered species such as the orangutan and Sumatran tiger, and increased greenhouse gas emissions. Many palm oil plantations are built on top of existing peat bogs, and clearing the land for palm oil cultivation may contribute to greenhouse gas emissions. Environmental groups such as Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth oppose the use of palm oil biofuels, claiming that the deforestation caused by oil palm plantations is more damaging for the climate than the benefits gained by switching to biofuel. However, research conducted by the Tropical Peat Research Laboratory shows that oil palms plantations act as carbon sinks, converting carbon dioxide into oxygen and, according the Malaysia's Second National Communication to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, the plantations contribute to Malaysia's status as a net carbon sink. Efforts to promote sustainable cultivation of palm oil have been promoted by organizations including theRoundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil and through support for conservation and rehabilitation of tropical forest, including by the Malaysian government, which has committed to preserve 50 percent its total land area as forest. References

Please let me know if you have any questions these revisions. If you agree that these changes are an improvement I hope you will go ahead and make these changes. Thanks.YellowOwl (talk) 20:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry that I don't have much time to work on this. As a first step, I've reworked the original text of the "Social" section on the page, fixing some vandalism and replacing or fixing the broken links. That's just a first step to make it easier to compare the suggested new text with the old. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:15, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Sminthopsis. I have made a request on the Paid Editor Help page, so hopefully someone there will be able to look more closely at these revisions. YellowOwl(talk) 22:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I've implemented both sections. The Social section was easy, since it was merely a reformatting and slight rewording to make the section sound more neutral, when it was previously clearly biased in a negative direction. The Environmental section required a closer look, but since practically all of the negative information you removed were sourced by partisan websites, I don't see a problem with their removal. And the reduction of the unnecessary extra information in the section was appropriate. Thus, I implemented that section as well. It should be good now. Silverseren^C 20:52, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Revisions for Blood lipid and RSPO sections

Thank you Silverseren for the help with the revisions to the Social and Environmental sections of this article. I have prepared two more revisions for this article. The first one is for theBlood lipid and cholesterol effects section. I have removed information here that was sourced to unreliable references, including the following information, which was sourced to personal communications:

In 1993, Malaysia's Institute for Medical Research's head of Cardiovascular Disease Unit Cardiovascular, Diabetes and Nutrition Centre Dr Tony Ng Kock Wai showed that the cholesterol impact of saturated fats is affected by its amount at the sn-2 position.

In an email response to WHO's 2002 draft report, Dr. David Kritchevsky of the Wistar Institute, Philadelphia denied that there were, at that time, any data showing palm oil consumption causing atherosclerosis.

References

Since removing this information shifts the focus of this section to studies on the negative health impacts of palm oil, I have found more reliable sources about the health benefits of palm oil and added information using these new references. Also, much of this section is highly technical and difficult to read. To correct this I have revised the wording of the section, but have retained the original references and meaning. In addition to these changes I have removed dead links and made sure that this section more closely matches what the references state.

The suggested text below only addresses the first portion of this section, I have not made any revisions to the "Comparison with animal saturated fat" or "Side note" subsections.

Blood lipid and cholesterol effects

Blood lipid and cholesterol effects According to studies reported on by the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI), excessive intake of palmitic acid, which makes up 44 percent of palm oil, increases blood cholesterol levels and may contribute to heart disease. Several studies have linked palm oil and cardiovascular disease including a 2005 study conducted in Costa Rica which indicated that replacing palm oil in cooking with polyunsaturated non hydrogenated oils could reduce the risk of heart attacks, and a 2011 analysis of 23 countries which showed that for each kilogram of palm oil added to the diet annually there was an increase in ischemic heart disease deaths though the increase was much smaller in high-income countries. However, results from several studies indicate that palm oil provides health benefits, including increasing good cholesterol and reducing bad cholesterol, and that consumption of palm oil does not increase the risk ofcerebrovascular disease.Additionally, a 1993 study published by the United Nations University Press found that consumption of palmitic acid appeared to have no impact on cholesterol levels when daily cholesterol intake is below 400 mg per day. The CSPI also reported that the World Health Organization and the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute have encouraged consumers to limit the consumption of palmitic acid and foods high in saturated fat. In response to negative reports on palm oil many food manufacturers transitioned to using hydrogenated vegetable oils in their products, which have also come under scrutiny for the impact these oils have on health. A 2006 study supported by the National Institutes of Health and the USDA Agricultural Research Service concluded that palm oil is not a safe substitute for partially hydrogenated fats (trans fats) in the food industry, because palm oil results in adverse changes in the blood concentrations of LDL cholesterol andapolipoprotein B just as trans fat does. However, according to two reports published in 2010 by the Journal of the American College of Nutrition palm oil is again an accepted replacement for hydrogenated vegetable oils and a natural replacement for partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, which are a significant source of trans fats.Palm oil is also an important source of calories and a food staple in poor communities. References

The next section I have prepared a revision for is theRoundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil section. I have several concerns with the current version on Wikipedia: first, this section is completely unsupported except for one reference at the very end, which links to the main page of the official RPSO website. It also appears that this section was almost entirely copied from an RSPO publication. See here. In addition to these two issues, the RSPO section in the Palm oil article should really only provide an overview of the topic since there is a standalone article on the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil.

Here is what I've prepared for this section:

Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil

Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil Main article: Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil The Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) was created in 2004 following concerns raised by non-governmental organizations about environmental impacts related to palm oil production. The organization has established international standards for sustainable palm oil production. Products containing certified palm oil can carry the RSPO trademark.Members of the RSPO include palm oil producers, environmental groups and manufacturers who use palm oil in their products. Palm oil growers who produce certified sustainable palm oil have been critical of the organization because, though they have met RSPO standards and assumed the costs associated with certification, the market demand for sustainable palm oil remains low. Low market demand has been attributed to the higher cost of certified sustainable palm oil, leading palm oil buyers to purchase cheaper non-certified palm oil. In 2011, 12% of palm oil produced was certified sustainable, though only half of that was purchased. References

Thank you in advance for reviewing these and I hope others will agree that these issues need to be resolved. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns about what I've prepared. As always, what I have presented here is a suggestion and I am open to feedback from other editors. YellowOwl (talk) 17:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Can you go over your changes to "Blood lipid and cholesterol effects" in more detail?WP:MEDRS applies, and I'm concerned about the emphasis on individual studies (and the information from them) that may or may not be highlighted in reviews or other MEDRS secondary sources. --Ronz (talk) 21:28, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Ronz, thank you for the quick reply. I will need some time to review WP:MEDRS and look over the Blood lipid and cholesterol effects section with that in mind. I will get back to you about it soon. While I work on that, do you have any thoughts on my draft for the RSPO section?YellowOwl (talk) 17:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello again, Ronz. Thank you for pointing me towards the WP:MEDRS page, I was unfamiliar with it when I prepared this draft and I now understand your concerns. My goal here was to remove unreliable sources (for example, the emails), replace them with reliable sources and make this section more readable. I would still like to accomplish this, but first I want to discuss the issue of sources.

After reviewing WP:MEDRS it appears that Wikipedia guidelines favor meta-analysis studies over individual studies. However, it also says that primary sources, or individual studies, can be used as references if these sources should are used only to clearly "describe the conclusions of the source". They should not be used to make inferences not implied in the source.

According to my interpretation of the guidelines what I have presented here is appropriate. Although I have used primary sources, I have not used them to draw conclusions. I am worried that revising this section so that it only relies on secondary or tertiary sources would require us to remove much of the existing information in the section and that is not my intent here.

It is important that this section be supported by published reports and studies, and that it clearly present both viewpoints as there are conflicting studies on the health effects of palm oil. I believe that is what I have done. I know that Wikipedia is a work in progress and I think my revision represents a significant improvement over the current section. Please let me know if you have any specific concerns with my draft that I can address. If not, I hope you'll be able to implement my suggestion. Thanks in advance. YellowOwl (talk) 21:46, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Can you describe your proposed changes please? --Ronz (talk) 16:36, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Ronz, here are the changes I have made in my revised version of this section:

Proposed changes to Blood lipids

Added more detail to the first sentence explaining what percentage of palm oil is palmitic acid. Removed POV wording, for example, I have replaced "a culprit in heart disease" with "may contribute to heart disease" Removed the following from the first paragraph because it is extraneous information about the sources, and does not provide information about health impacts of palm oil. After readingWP:MEDRS I think it would be appropriate to note which reports are meta-analysis studies when they are mentioned. The CSPI report cited research that goes back to 1970.and metastudies. I revised the following and moved the information to the start of the second paragraph of the section. CSPI also said that The National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, World Health Organization (WHO), and other health authorities have urged reduced consumption of palm oil. WHO states that there is convincing evidence that palmitic acid consumption contributes to an increased risk of developing cardiovascular diseases. I have replaced the dead link in this section and it now reads: The CSPI also reported that the World Health Organization and the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute have encouraged consumers to limit the consumption of palmitic acid and foods high in saturated fat. I revised the sentence about the study in Costa Rica from: 2005 research in Costa Rica suggests consumption of non-hydrogenated unsaturated oils over palm oil. to the following that more accurately reflects the findings of the study: 2005 study conducted in Costa Rica which indicated that replacing palm oil in cooking with polyunsaturated non hydrogenated oils could reduce the risk of heart attacks (As described above) I removed all of the following information because the sources fail to meet Wikipedia's standards. In 1993, Malaysia's Institute for Medical Research's head of Cardiovascular Disease Unit Cardiovascular, Diabetes and Nutrition Centre Dr Tony Ng Kock Wai showed that the cholesterol impact of saturated fats is affected by its amount at the sn-2 position. Despite the high palmitic acid content (41%) of palm oil, only 13-14% is present at the sn-2 position. In an email response to WHO's 2002 draft report, Dr. David Kritchevsky of the Wistar Institute, Philadelphia denied that there were, at that time, any data showing palm oil consumption causing atherosclerosis. Because I removed this information, which was favorable to palm oil, I felt the section was overly negative. To resolve this I located new sources and added in the following: However, results from several studies indicate that palm oil provides health benefits, including increasing good cholesterol and reducing bad cholesterol, and that consumption of palm oil does not increase the risk of cerebrovascular disease. Additionally, a 1993 study published by the United Nations University Press found that consumption of palmitic acid appeared to have no impact on cholesterol levels when daily cholesterol intake is below 400 mg per day. I retained the following information, but have moved it up to the first paragraph of the section: A 2011 analysis of 23 countries showed that for each kilogram of palm oil added to the diet annually, there was an increase in ischemic heart disease deaths. The increase was much smaller in high-income countries. I also retained the following: However, a 2006 study supported by the National Institutes of Health and the USDAAgricultural Research Service concluded that palm oil is not a safe substitute for partially hydrogenated fats (trans fats) in the food industry, because palm oil results in adverse changes in the blood concentrations of LDL cholesterol and apolipoprotein B just as trans fat does. References

As I explained above, and hopefully these details show, my main focus was on improving this section's readability and ensuring it was properly sourced. YellowOwl(talk) 19:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Alternate suggestion for Blood lipids section

While I would like to see the section as a whole improved, I don't want this request or discussion to monopolize another editor's time on, or off, Wikipedia. I have an alternate suggestion for how to address the "Blood lipid and cholesterol" section.

Instead of the revision above, I would like to suggest simply adding the following to the current material. For balance in the section, it is important to include that studies have found that palm oil is a healthy replacement for partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. The sources I have found were both reviews published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition and, I believe, meet WP:MEDRS.

According to two reports published in 2010 by the Journal of the American College of Nutrition palm oil is an accepted replacement for partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, which are a significant source of trans fats.

References

I am wondering if Ronz, or another editor, would be able to make this smaller addition if they find it agreeable?

On a different topic, I am still interested in addressing the RSPO section. I have left a message on Sminthopsis84's talk page to see if they have time to join this discussion, but I would also like to hear from anyone who has comments on my draft for this section. Thanks in advance. YellowOwl (talk) 13:39, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

The blood lipids section is installed, I think it is okay. The RSPO section is not yet dealt with. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:43, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Sminthopsis84. I appreciate you taking the time to help with this. Do you have any questions about the RSPO draft or do you think this is ready to go in the article?YellowOwl (talk) 20:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments on RSPO proposal

Brief and well-sourced, I think it's a great improvement. I am however a bit concerned that we're not summarizing Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil, emphasizing what's directly relevant to the topic of palm oil. However Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil is in pretty bad shape, and I don't think we should hold off improving this article because of the other. --Ronz (talk) 03:54, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your review, Ronz. If you feel my revision is neutral and an improvement, would you mind adding it to the article? YellowOwl (talk) 20:11, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I just replaced the first section of Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil with the suggested text. Much improved, in my opinion. --Guy Macon (talk) 23:36, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Two final revisions: Biodiesel and introduction

Thank you again to Sminthopsis84 and Guy Macon for helping with the revisions to the "Blood lipid and cholesterol effects" and "Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil" sections. I understand that I have asked for a significant amount of assistance over the last several months and I am grateful for all of the time and effort Wikipedia's volunteer editors have been willing to give. It has been great to see all of the improvements in these articles so far and I hope that we will be able to work through my two final requests for this page.

First, I would like to address the Biodiesel section.

This section currently lacks proper references throughout, in fact the first two paragraphs are entirely unsupported, and many of the sources used in the rest of the section are unverifiable. In addition, this section provides too much detail on specific biodiesel plants which does not add to the reader's understanding of palm oil biodiesel. Also, I have discovered that portions of text in this section have been copied directly from sources.

I have prepared a draft version of this section that addresses and corrects these issues and adds more current information which would allow us to removed the "outdated" banner from the section. While making these changes I decided it made sense to create a new subsection on Malaysia, since much of this section focused on Malaysia anyhow. To this new subsection I have added current information about Malaysia's palm oil biodiesel mandates. Here is what I suggest:

New text for Biodiesel

Biodiesel Main article: Biodiesel Palm oil can be used to produce biodiesel, which is also known as palm oil methyl ester. Palm oil methyl ester is created through a process called transesterification. Palm oil biodiesel is often blended with other fuels to create palm oil biodiesel blends.Palm oil biodiesel meets the European EN 14214 standard for biodiesels.The world's largest palm oil biodiesel plant is the Finnish operated Neste Oil biodiesel plant in Singapore, which opened in 2011. The organic waste matter produced when processing oil palm, including oil palm shells and oil palm fruit bunches, can also be used to produce energy. This waste material, also known asbiomass, can be converted into pellets that can be used as a biofuel. Additionally, palm oil that has been used to fry foods can be converted into methyl esters for biodiesel. The used cooking oil is chemically treated to create a biodiesel similar to petroleum diesel. The use of palm oil in the production of biodiesel has led to concerns that the need for fuel is being placed ahead of the need for food, leading to malnourishment in developing nations. This is known as the food versus fuel debate. According to a 2008 report published in the Renewable and Sustainable Energy Reviews, palm oil was determined to be a sustainable source of both food and biofuel. The production of palm oil biodiesel does not pose a threat to edible palm oil supplies.According to a 2009 study published in the Environmental Science and Policy journal, palm oil biodiesel might increase the demand for palm oil in the future, resulting in the expansion of palm oil production, and therefore an increased supply of food. Biodiesel in Malaysia The Malaysian government established the National Biofuel Policy in 2006, which led to the implementation of the B5 mandate in some regions of the country. The B5 mandate requires that all diesel sold in these regions of Malaysia contain 5% palm oil biodiesel. This mandate is expected to be expanded nationwide in 2014, with plans to increase the minimum palm oil biodiesel content to 10%. The biodiesel sector in Malaysia has struggled to become profitable, due in part to the high cost of crude palm oil, which led to a dip in biodiesel production in the late 2000s. In 2012, there were 20 biodiesel plants in Malaysia, of which 2 were operational by early 2013. According to an advisor to the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil, biodiesel production in Malaysia is expected to double in 2013. References

I have also prepared these notes on what I have removed and changed since Ronz asked for more detail on my previous request:

Detailed changes for Biodiesel section

I have revised the following portions because they were copied directly from the sources: In Malaysia, an estimated 50,000 tonnes of used frying oils, both vegetable oils and animal fats, are disposed of yearly, without treatment, as wastes. used frying oil (mainly palm olein), after pretreatment with silica gel, is a suitable feedstock for conversion to methyl esters by catalytic reaction using sodium hydroxide. The methyl esters produced have fuel properties comparable to those of petroleum diesel, and can be used in unmodifieddiesel engines By 2050, a British scientist estimates global demand for edible oils will probably be around 240 million tonnes, nearly twice 2008 consumption. Most of the additional oil may be palm oil, which has the lowest production cost of the major oils, but soybean oil production will probably also increase. An additional 12,000,000 hectares (46,000 sq mi) of oil palms may be required, if average yields continue to rise as in the past. This need not be at the expense of forest; oil palm planted on anthropogenic grassland could supply all the oil required for edible purposes in 2050. I have replaced or removed the following information because it is unsupported: Glycerin is a byproduct of transesterification. The actual process used to produce biodiesel around the world varies between countries and the requirements of different markets. Next-generation biofuel production processes are also being tested in relatively small trial quantities. On 16 December 2007, Malaysia opened its first biodiesel plant in the state of Pahang, with an annual capacity of 100,000 tonnes, and which also produces byproducts in the form of 4,000 tonnes of palm fatty acid distillate and 12,000 tonnes of pharmaceutical-grade glycerine. Malaysia is emerging as one of the leading biofuel producers, with 91 palm oil plants approved and a handful now in operation. First generation biodiesel production from palm oil is in demand globally. Palm oil is also a primary substitute for rapeseed oil in Europe, which too is experiencing new demand for biodiesel purposes. Palm oil producers are investing heavily in the refineries needed for biodiesel. In Malaysia, companies have been merging, buying others out and forming alliances to obtain the economies of scale needed to handle the high costs caused by increased feedstock prices. New refineries are being built across Asia and Europe. I kept the first portion of this sentence about the world's largest biodiesel plant but have removed the following: and 170,000 tpa from its first second-generation plant in Finland from 2007-8, which can refine fuel from a variety of sources. Neste and the Finnish government are using thisparaffinic fuel in some public buses in the Helsinki area as a small-scale pilot. I removed the following because Wikipedia is not the place for predictions: The IEA predicts biofuels usage in Asian countries will remain modest. But as a major producer of palm oil, the Malaysian government is encouraging the production of biofuel feedstock and the building of palm oil biodiesel plants. References

The second part of my final request is for two small revisions to the introduction:

• The third paragraph of the introduction should be revised to reflect the information recently added to the Blood lipid section showing that palm oil is a suitable natural replacement for trans fats. This would add balance to the introduction and, given the conflicting opinions of the health effects of palm oil, I think this is important information for the introduction.

• The fourth paragraph of the introduction needs revisions because the information here is copied nearly verbatim from the source it is supported by. This information is also too specific for an introduction. I've retained the source, but provided a more general overview of the RSPO.

Below is what I suggest:

New text for introduction

Revision to paragraph 3: Palm oil is a common cooking ingredient in the tropical belt of Africa, Southeast Asiaand parts of Brazil. Its use in the commercial food industry in other parts of the world is buoyed by its lower cost and by the high oxidative stability (saturation) of the refined product when used for frying. A recent rise in the use of palm oil in the food industry has come from changed labelling requirements that have caused a switch away from using trans fats. Palm oil has been found to be a reasonable replacement for trans fats,however a small study conducted in 2009 found that palm oil may not be a good substitute for trans fats for individuals with already elevated LDL levels. Revision to paragraph 4:' The use of palm oil in food products attracts the concern of environmental activist groups; the high oil yield of the trees, attractive to profit-driven investors, has led, in parts of Indonesia, to removal of forests in order to make space for oil-palm monoculture. This has resulted in acreage losses of the natural habitat of the orangutan, of which both species are endangered and the Sumatran orangutan has been listed as "critically endangered". In 2004, the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) was formed to work with palm oil industry to address these concerns. Additionally, in 1992, in response to concerns about deforestation, the Malaysian Government has pledged to limit the expansion of palm oil plantations by retaining a minimum of half the nation's land as forest cover. References

Thank you in advance for reviewing these. I'd be happy to answer any questions or address any concerns about my revisions. As always, these are suggestions and I welcome others' input.YellowOwl (talk) 15:19, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

This request is partly complete: Guy Macon has kindly reviewed and made the changes to the introduction, however I still need an editor to look at my revision of the Biodiesel section.YellowOwl (talk) 21:42, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Guy Macon for making the remaining change and adding my Biodiesel revision to the article. YellowOwl (talk) 15:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Palmitic acid boosts the metastatic potential of CD36

Hello, I'd like to suggest mentioned that palm oil is probe to fuel cancer metastasis:

The team led by Salvador Aznar-Benitah, professor of research ICREA at the Institut de Recerca Biomèdica de Barcelona (IRB Barcelona) has concluded the potentiating effect of fatty acids on the spread of cancer through metastasis. In addition, the study has focused on palmitic acid, the most common saturated fatty acid in the diet of industrialized countries, even in those regions where the Mediterranean diet should reign. The article published in Nature concluded palm oil boots creation of metastasis of cancer

Note that study's abstract mentions palmitic acid but not palm oil, and it is in vitro research, WP:PRIMARY, not suitable for an encyclopedic entry on cancer effects in humans per WP:MEDRS. --Zefr (talk) 19:49, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

References

Palm oil consumers

This article has a section on palm oil producers, but it doesn't have a section on palm oil consumers. The United States seems to consume most of everything, but I thought I read somewhere that this is not true of palm oil. The United States consumes only a small percentage of the world's palm oil. So who does consume it? I think the answer to that question who make a valuable addition to this article. -ErinHowarth (talk) 03:24, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Still no section on this, although there are bits of information scattered in the production section. This https://www.palmoilandfood.eu/en/palm-oil-consumption seems to say that in 2015, India, the EU and China used (very roughly) the same amount, and together with the countries of origin used something like 60–70% of it. /JöG (talk) 06:07, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Palm oil certification (new article?)

Hello, I'd like to suggest spinning off a new article on Palm oil certification, including Certified Sustainable Palm Oil (CSPO), Malaysia Sustainable Palm Oil (MSPO), and the Indonesian equivalent. Currently information about CSPO is scattered in several articles. I've created a redirect to what seemed to be the most substantial material on CSPO, but I think it would be better placed in a separate article. Thoughts? suggestions? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:19, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Market

In this paragraph, the only paragraph in the section "Market", the verbs in all the sentences up to the one starting "Of the 60.3 million tonnes" were in past tense, reflecting the fact that the figures came from a 2008 issue of a trade journal, "Oil World". Since there was no indication that the figures in the last two sentences of the paragraph did not also come from that journal, I changed the verbs in those sentences to past tense. If this is not correct, and the figures in the last two sentences are more recent, the tense of the verbs in those sentences would have to be revised. – CorinneSD (talk) 19:31, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Why the map?

This isn't an orangutan article. Kortoso (talk) 22:54, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Seems to still be UNDUE focus on environmental impacts of present-day oil palm cultivation. All of that belongs at oil palm and not here; on the other hand, the treatment of the importance of palm oil to the British industrial revolution and subsequent replacement by American petroleum products very much needs to be expanded upon. — LlywelynII 14:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Eating saturated fat has no effect on cholesterol levels

This is now just about accepted fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.123.137 (talk) 14:29, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Respectfully and without prejudging your motives: That is utterly false. There is no such consensus. Not even close.--IfYouDoIfYouDon't (talk) 09:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Why the quotes?

In the following sentence in the intro section, zero is in quotes:

Like most plant-based products, palm oil contain "zero" cholesterol.

Is there any particular reason for this? Does some editor think "zero" has a different meaning than zero :)  ???

Shouldn't it just say "contains no cholesterol"?

99.245.230.104 (talk) 04:37, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

There is no longer any reference to zero. I guess it was removed in a previous revision. Sadgrove (talk) 11:44, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Markets

It would be an improvement to move the first half of RSPO from the "Social and Environmental Impacts" to the "Markets"-section as a new sub-topic, e.g. "Sustainable Palm Oil". At least there could be a quote about the Certification, like the Book & Claim trading programme and certification via GreenPalm. At least it will be a sub-topic about sustainability, supply chains and certification. BG — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tutbenechamun (talk • contribs) 07:41, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

I have tidied the various references to RSPO into a sub heading in Markets. I think most of it could be moved to the stand alone article on that organisation: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Roundtable_on_Sustainable_Palm_Oil, leaving just a summary here. Sadgrove (talk) 12:07, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Carotenoids and vitamin E

"Palm oil contains other carotenes including tocopherols and tocotrienols (members of the vitamin E family), CoQ10, phytosterols, and glycolipids." This is a typo - instead of "carotenes" another word was intended. Perhaps "nutrients" or "bioactives". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.208.61 (talk) 06:14, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Adjusted today concerning carotenoid and vitamin E contents with new references. --Zefr (talk) 16:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Degumming

"Then melting and degumming removes impurities" Degumming redirects to silkworm farming - perhaps this degumming process is called something else on wikipedia...Charlieb000 (talk) 10:36, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Carotenes

As far as I unterstand carotenes are only in crude red palm oil, which is really red in color. But widely used in industry palm oil does not have them at all, (as in USDA base https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods) Cathry (talk) 11:55, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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Use in foods and false equivalent "trans fats" vs. hydrogenated vegetable oils

I think there should be more about the use of palm oil in foods, both as an ingredient for home cooking as well as an ingredient in food industry. The current subtitle "Butter and trans fat substitute" is very limited.

That chapter also incorrectly uses the term "trans fat" when referring to hydrogenated vegetable oils. Through regulatory interventions and technological improvements the trans fat levels in food products have been globally reduced a lot. See a WHO review on the effectiveness of interventions 2005-2012 [1]. Also Harvard Nutrition states that "some of the newest margarines are free of trans fats"[2]. If there was an increase of demand for palm oil because of its lower trans fat content, then it seems to have been temporary. I think the mention of it should be either left out of the article or explained to be a thing of the past.Qtea (talk) 09:13, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Derived products from palm oil and used in cosmetics

Elaeis Guineensis (Palmier) huile (CAS No. 8002-75-3)

- Elaeis Guineensis (Palm) Kernel Oil (CAS No. 8023-79-8)
- Hydrogenated Palm Kernel Oil (CAS No. 68990-82-9; 84540-04-5)
- Elaeis (Palm) Oil - Hydrogenated Palm Oil (CAS No. 8033-29-2; 68514-74-9)
- Elaeis Guineensis (Palm) Butter (CAS No. 8002-75-3)
- Palm Kernel Acid
- Potassium Palm Kernelate
- Potassium Palmate
- Potassium Hydrogenated Palmate
- Sodium Palm Kernelate (CAS No. 6 1789-89-7)
- Sodium Palmate (CAS No. 61790-79-2)
- Sodium Hydrogenated Palmate
- Palm Acid
- Hydrogenated Palm Acid

Source : Cosmetic Ingredient Review
www.cir-safety.org/ingredients — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.44.237.58 (talk) 13:45, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Honesty in saturation

The differences are in color (raw palm kernel oil lacks carotenoids and is not red), and in saturated fat content: palm mesocarp oil is 49% saturated, while palm kernel oil and coconut oil are 81% and 86% saturated fats, respectively.

However, crude red palm oil that has been refined, bleached and deodorized, a common commodity called RBD palm oil, does not contain carotenoids.

Many industrial food applications of palm oil use fractionated components of palm oil (often listed as "modified palm oil") whose saturation levels can reach 90%; these "modified" palm oils can become highly saturated, but are not necessarily hydrogenated.

I added the sentence in bold (with internal doi cite to primary journal).

it's just wrong to give people the vague notion that culinary palm oil lives in a lower saturation tier than palm kernel or coconut oils, when by the time it hits the table, anything goes (which probably also applies to the other oils, too).

Part of the main reason palm oil is favoured by the industrial food sector is that it's extremely malleable, and can be easily be different things to different people. So let's not drop bulk statistics into the mix without sufficient commentary, like so many naive rabbits. — MaxEnt 22:11, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

We could move much of the the RSPO content to its Main article?

There is a case for moving much of the content about the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) to the Main article: Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil. Sadgrove (talk) 11:53, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Expanding on stearin and olein in "Refining" section

The section on Refining could be improved by adding some additional information on stearin and olein, the products of fractionation. I suggest this sentence after the second sentence in the section: "The solid stearin, which makes up about 15% of palm oil content, is often used to make shortening and other fats that are solid at room temperature. The liquid olein, the other 85%, is often bottled to be used for cooking oil."

References

Adding section "Consumption" under "Markets"

Palm oil consumption varies widely among countries. The top consumers are Indonesia, China, India, and the European Union.

References

Adding section "Solutions" under "Social and Environmental Impacts" to discuss what producers and consumers can do to reduce the environmental impact of palm oil

I think that the page should include a section on possible solutions to address the problems posed by palm oil. This section should be inserted under "Social and Environmental Impacts":

Solutions

"The sustainability of palm oil production depends on producers and consumers alike. In order to address the issues that palm oil poses, companies can obtain an RSPO certification and follow their guidelines, commit to no net forest loss policies by using reclaimed land for plantation expansion, and be transparent about the use of palm oil and it’s source. Farmers can help by decreasing fertilizer use to the bare minimum, given that current levels of fertilizer use is excessive and wasteful. Consumers can help address the issues of palm oil by avoiding foods and products that contain palm oil if alternatives are accessible and available, only purchasing sustainable palm oil, and supporting organizations that combat the environmental impacts of palm oil production and expansion."

References

Expanding on "Use in Food" section

The "Use in Food" section under "Processing and Use" is a little lacking. It mentions that palm oil is often used in baked goods and pastries, but doesn't mention any other processed foods or household goods. I suggest adding this to the section: "Palm oil is a common additive in over 50% of packaged foods and household products. It is tasteless and a very inexpensive source of trans fat. Palm oil is also a good emulsifier, making it a great additive for stabilizing a number of processed goods."

References

Social impact - indigenous

This revert was justified because there is already discussion about social impacts and indigenous effects of palm farming expansion in this section, and the new edit is advocacy - see WP:ADVOCACY and WP:NOTNEWS. TDK949 - Better to discuss here to gain consensus among other editors, rather than edit war. Zefr (talk) 00:10, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

In the future, please make the effort to tone @Zefr to town down advocacy edits: there is nothing wrong with documenting this as part of the human rights sections, and a full revert of the goodfaith edit by @TDK949 doesn't seem appropriate, Sadads (talk) 14:18, 27 April 2022 (UTC)