Talk:Paddy McNair

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Football: England / Ireland / Manchester United Mid‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	English football portal This article is supported by the English football task force (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by the Irish football task force (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by the Manchester United task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Northern Ireland Low‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wrong height?

172 cm seems very small. Can't find any references for it either, but in this article it says: "Among the keenest United watchers, eyebrows were raised as he chose McNair above Tom Thorpe, who is considered a superior centre-back but does not have McNair’s height." Tom Thorpe is 188 cm according to wp. --torstein (talk) 14:26, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Seems" is a very dangerous word here. Also, you can't always trust WP, so Thorpe's height may be questionable too. That said, according to the Premier League website, McNair is 1.72m and Thorpe is 1.85m. – Pee Jay 21:37, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Seems", as in "I don't believe it". Searching a little bit more I found this Mail Online article, claiming he's "had a growth spurt over the last couple of years to pass the 6ft mark". Maybe he was 5ft 8" when he was first measured, but he's still growing. Also, looks taller than Rafael and Darren Fletcher. --torstein (talk) 09:19, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That is likely, but we don't have a reliable source for his actual height as it stands now. Let's stick with what we've got for the time being. – Pee Jay 10:08, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

McNair is 6 feet tall. (Source: The Irish FA). --torstein (talk) 11:43, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is good and from what I can see it seems like a reliable source. Now we have the situation where different reliable sources have different heights. Do you have more sources for 6feet so that we can say that this actually is his height, as it is know it is "word against word" and height can not be confirmed (so old info stays on article). QED237 (talk) 12:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not any other than my own functioning eyes, plus the Mail Online article linked above . I'm pretty sure that once in his life McNair was 172 cm, but like everyone else he's not stopped growing after being measured. So it seems strange and factually wrong to keep the oldest source, especially when people are growing. Old info, is as you say, old. --torstein (talk) 12:19, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But we cant say when sourcs were updated and how "old" the information actually is. They could have been updated at the ame time with one of them being wrong. QED237 (talk) 12:24, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are far more sources for 1.72m [1] [2] [3]. What we could do is do like soccerbase who removed height and not show it at all until it is clear. QED237 (talk) 12:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Those sources probably stems from premierleague.com or Wikipedia. But removing height from the infobox is a good solution. Adding some links to discussion anyway: Funny Reddit conversation. McNair on FM2015. McNair discussion on RedCafe. "You have a split second to get everything right and for a tall lad he has got very good feet." --torstein (talk) 12:44, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Premier League website is obviously unreliable for player heights. We don't know where they get their data from or how old it is. Someone as young as McNair has obviously continued to grow during the last few years and this is borne out by the photos and data from the Irish FA. I support adding his height as 6 feet as per the Irish FA website and in compliance with WP:UNITS. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 19:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Found another source for the case of him being 6ft http://www.transfermarkt.com/patrick-mcnair/profil/spieler/167268. Photo evidence completely discredits the 5ft 8' sources . Jamie mul (talk) 20:11, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Transfermarkt is an unreliable source, but I do agree that McNair's height seems rather low. Speccy4Eyes, the Premier League is usually a reliable source for player heights; you simply don't like it as it doesn't use your preferred units. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 20:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As User:Lukeno94 says Transfermarkt has been deemed unreliable after several reliable sources disussions. Currently there is PL and Irish FA, both reliable so no info will be added. We dont use games as reliable sources. Photos can never be used as source. QED237 (talk) 21:19, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What makes Transfermarkt unreliable and who deemed it was and when? And what makes Premier League reliable and when was it deemed reliable? Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is the same reason why Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source. Transfermarkt is user-edited so if editor want something (lets say height for a footballer) they could possibly go to transfermarkt, create an account, edit the height then use that as a source here to include his own height. We can not have sources like that. It has been discussed at the Football project but more importantly at WP:RSN (reliable sources noticeboard]] at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 150#Transfermarkt player profiles and editors has been removing use of transfermarkt on sight since that. Premier league is an offical organ and no one except the league themselves can edit that page and they update players at the begining of each season with information from the clubs. QED237 (talk) 22:37, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to go with 6'0". We can clearly see he is over 5'8", and although our own eyes are not reliable sources, we do have a reliable source in the Irish FA website. Stick it up. – Pee Jay 00:19, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2014

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Manchester united has won all the six match in which McNair has started 113.199.195.200 (talk) 11:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done No source provided and no info where this should be added? Also I am not sure it is notable. QED237 (talk) 11:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Player height

I propose to put feet and inches first in the info box as there is no obvious good reason to deviate here from the direction given in WP:UNITS. Do we agree? If not what is the overriding reason to disobey WP:UNITS? Personal preference clearly doesn't count and the units used in sources are irrelevant too (and even if they weren't, we could supply similarly reliable sources using either unit first!). Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:22, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your proposals carry no weight here any more. The source gives his height in metres and changing it to display feet and inches first would mislead the reader into thinking that the source gave it in feet and inches too, which it doesn't. – Pee Jay 00:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion can be closed as the section above called "Wrong height?" has shown the Premier League website to be an unreliable source for his height. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 19:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, talk about tweeking information to your point of view. Premier League website is still a reliable website, if you dont agree take it to RSN. And give up your rant. QED237 (talk) 21:15, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't tweeked anything! I've withdrawn this proposal because there is no longer a height to worry about. Yor remark is very rude about my suggestion to comply with WP:UNITS.

If we do decide on what height to use then it should still obey WP:UNITS and put feet first. The units used in the source don't count for anything as WP:UNITS says "For situations in which the units used as primary in the article differ from the units given in the source, the {{convert}} template's |order=flip flag can be used; this causes the original unit to be shown as secondary in the article, and the converted unit to be shown as primary.". Your obvious personal preference for meters counts for nothing against WP:UNIIS. Speccy4Eyes (talk) 22:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]