Talk:Outer God

Requested move

Since "Great Old One" (singular) was recently moved to Great Old Ones (plural), Outer God (singular) should probably be moved to Outer Gods (plural) for consistency. ^Gate2Valusia^{Oh?..(contribs)} 22:03, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Question. As a matter of policy, plural should only be used for nouns cases where singular is never used. If "Outer God" is an acceptable way of talking about one of the "Outer Gods", then it should stay at "Outer God". If "Great Old One" is likewise an acceptable reference to one of the "Great Old Ones" then it should be moved back to the singular. Since I am not at all familiar with this material, I don't know how it is conventionally used. Dragons flight 01:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

• I agree. Since I originally requested the move, I've had a change of heart (for the record, User:Gate2Valusia is my old user name, so I'm effectively nullifying my original argument). I think I created a semantic problem when I first authored the article and used plural in the first sentence (the same thing happened with the Great Old Ones article). If the first sentence had read "An Outer God is a member of a group of fictional deites in the Cthulhu mythos of H.P. Lovecraft", there would have been no problem (even though the sentence is a bit long-winded). Hence, I'm (officially) requesting that Outer Gods be moved back to Outer God. RlyehRising 05:52, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Decision

Page moved as requested. Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 07:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Outer Gods moved back to Outer God

Noted this move. The title now conforms to Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Prefer singular nouns. RlyehRising 19:31, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Merge info

Merged Abhoth, Daoloth, The Hydra (Outer God), Ghroth, Tulzscha, and Ubbo-Sathla.

The following are leftovers from the merge:

[[sv:Abhoth]], [[sv:Daoloth]], [[sv:Ghroth]], [[sv:Tulzscha]], [[sv:Ubbo-Sathla]]

RlyehRising 05:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Original research?

The second introductory paragraph contains dubious information. If this information comes from a published reference, I would like to see a citation.
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 23:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I have dissected the disputed paragraph and listed some of my concerns:

According to H. P. Lovecraft's cosmology, there are two sets of Outer Gods: the Elder Gods and the Other Gods.

• I am given to understand that the "Elder Gods" are a separate group from the "Outer Gods", and may be their rivals. Also, this sentence claims that this is part of "H. P. Lovecraft's cosmology", though the concept of "Outer Gods" was conceived long after Lovecraft's death. What published reference makes this claim?

Though the terms "Outer Gods" and "Other Gods" are often mistakenly used interchageably, the beings decribed below are the Other Godsblockquote>

• Again, what published reference makes this claim?

The Other Gods are "mindless blasphemies" from outside the capacity of humanity to understand. Most of the time, they are asleep and/or insane, and would like to see humanity dead, devoured, or made slaves. They include Cthulhu, Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, and Shub-Niggurath.

• I have never seen Cthulhu classified as an "Other God"; who makes this claim? Also, Lovecraft never expounded on the motives of the "Other Gods" (in fact, he never nailed down exactly who or what they were). What published source gives this detailed analysis of the "Other Gods"?

The Elder Gods are presumed to be good, but are distant and unmoved by humanities cries. Periodically, they may be invoked, but they generally neglect humanity, leaving them in the hands of the Other Gods.

• This could be substantiated. It is fairly close to August Derleth's conception of the "Elder Gods", but also invokes Lovecraft's indifferentism. However, a published reference is still needed so that it doesn't look NPOV.
  -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 00:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Removed from article

I removed the following section from the article for the following reasons: (1) it contains dubious facts, (2) it is uncited (and has remained so for some time, despite a request for sources via {{fact}}), (3) some information contradicts the reference cited in the article (Harms, "Outer Gods", The Encyclopedia Cthulhiana):

In the Cthulhu mythos, there are two sets of Outer Gods: the Elder Gods and the Other Gods. Though the terms "Outer Gods" and "Other Gods" are often mistakenly used interchageably, the beings described below are the Other Gods. The Other Gods are "mindless blasphemies" from outside the capacity of humanity to understand. Most of the time, they are asleep and/or insane, and would like to see humanity dead, devoured, or made slaves. They include Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, and Shub-Niggurath. The Elder Gods are presumed to be good, but are distant and unmoved by humanity's cries. Periodically, they may be invoked, but they generally neglect humanity, leaving them in the hands of the Other Gods.

-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 02:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Uncited entries

C'thalpa

(The Inner One) Composed of living magma.

D'endrrah

Tru'nembra

(The Flautist of Azathoth) Composed of living sound.

;Magnum Tenebrosum —I recognize this one, so am restoring to article. RlyehRising 03:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

(Where does all this stuff come from? Can anyone provide a verifiable source? Do they appear in a role-playing game supplement, for example? Or is someone just making them up? I have to wonder...)
-,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 03:24, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they do, some obscure French ones for the first two. Not sure nof the third, but I am certain it is out there.

Tru'nembra is reference in a few of Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu products and, I think, in Encyclopaedia Cthulhiana. It is derived from The Music of Erich Zann. Will try to dig up more specific references. - CNichols 02:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Ubbo-Sathla and Abhoth?

Are these two really Outer Gods? They seem to be Great Old Ones at best (localized, without cosmic influence). 98.198.12.5 22:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Other, Outer, Earth and whatsoever Gods

I believe I read something in this article about the Outer/Other Gods being the Gods from beyond the Earth, and the Great Old Ones being the Gods of the Earth. Now I don't know if I might be mistaken, but I believe that a completely different pantheon of Gods appearing in the dreamlands (from Lovecraft's Dream Cycle) were already referred to as the 'Gods of Earth'. Can somebody clarify this? Cyanid (talk) 15:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Tru'nembra

Alright, found this name in various place such as Chaosium's sourcebook Malleus Monstrorum (I don't have Encyclopedia Cthulhiana). Question is, while I known this is the name given to the sound in The Music of Erich Zann by post-Lovecraft author, do anybody have info on the work that first use this name? L-Zwei (talk) 06:33, 28 February 2011 (UTC)