Talk:Oskar Gröning

Quote by Rees, "I saw the gas chambers"

The Gröning quote by Rees is a falsification, as pointed out elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.226.21.32 (talk) 07:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

• I'll just leave this here for posterity, but no - it isn't. Firstly, the words "gas chamber" are heard only in the voiceover in the American edition, and not in the British edition. Secondly, Laurence Rees has stated that they did indeed capture Mr. Gröning on video including the words "I have seen the gas chambers", it's just that they weren't in the final cut. Thirdly, the cited source for this quote is neither version of the documentary, but the book, so this criticism is not only wrong, but completely irrelevant too. WilliamH (talk) 03:57, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Did Groening say he "saw the gas chambers" or not? Or was that just inserted later? --41.151.18.167 (talk) 09:50, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, he did say that he saw them. WilliamH (talk) 13:46, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Nope, that was inserted in articles later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVfFHJE0e1g So, it's not what he actually said --154.69.6.53 (talk) 00:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

The book is based on the videotaped interview for the BBC, in the documentary, Auschwitz: The Nazis and the Final Solution. The English voiceover for the documentary does not mention "Gas Chambers" and if you listen to him speaking, quite clearly, he does NOT say "Gas Chambers" in German either. Rees says in his book (page 373) that he does say it in the video interview, (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gw1cJC0D4qYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Auschwitz:+The+Nazis+and+the+%27Final+Solution%27&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tuZCVcr1J4L0aKSwgOgP&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=groening%20i%20saw%20the&f=false) but if you listen to the actual German you can hear him say "I would like you to believe me" and then "I saw the crematoria" but in Rees' book, inbetween those two statements he says "I saw the gas chambers". Listen to the German audio, you hear the first and second part but not the middle. Not because you can't hear it, but because he doesn't say it. The audio is an unedited statement. And "if" it was edited, why on earth would they miss this original German audio out in a documentary on Auschwitz. It is damning evidence, why miss it out? This isn't conspiracy, it is blatant lies and the mainstream media keep quoting this as fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.112.2 (talk) 02:31, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

This is even discussed by those who debate Holocaust deniers and Rees comments on the thread also - http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/when-deniers-are-right.html?m=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.164.163 (talk) 03:25, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

The article states that he heard things from others before he left. He never personally was able to verify anything from personal observation - his input to holocaust research appears to be zero, except for forwarding rumors. 2601:181:8301:4510:D981:90CB:8ADC:BCDA (talk) 02:53, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

1.5 million or 4 million?

The article claims Mr. Groning said "I saw everything, the gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there." I would assume this conversation took place in 1990 or after, because from 1990 until present 1.5 million is the exact number of victims claimed on the sign at Auschwitz to have been murdered. Until 1990, for 45 years the number on the sign claimed 4 million victims.

So I wonder, did Mr. Groning know all along that the number of victims were 1.5 million and if so, why didn't he ever speak out to correct the figure? Or, did this conversation take place after the sign was changed and he is only quoting the figure on the sign. If this is the case (which I suspect it is), he doesn't know how many people died there and is only quoting the figure on the sign.

The sign was changed in 1990, two years after the famous Zundel trial in Canada, in which the first scientific analysis was done at Auschwitz to see if the atrocity claims were possible. This put pressure on the Holocaust story promoters. In 1990 the Soviet Union released the records from Auschwitz which claim that about 100,000 people died at Auschwitz (I forgot the exact figure), but this is still far below the 1.5 million on the sign at Auschwitz and this figure that Groning repeats.Pgg804 (talk) 01:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I assume you are talking about the "death books", which contain approx. 69,000 deaths logged by the camp Gestapo. This is obviously not the true death toll, as the vast majority of those who disappeared following their deportation to Auschwitz were not registered into the camp. And as is stated in the article, Mr. Gröning did not pulicly speak out for a long time because he preferred not to dwell on his association with Auschwitz, so it's rather pointless to speculate whether or not he was a statistician in the years beforehand. WilliamH (talk) 13:06, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

In his trial he could only be charged with accessory to murder of 300k people from 1942-1944

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-nazi/court-rules-bookkeeper-of-auschwitz-96-must-go-to-jail-idUSKBN1EN12X

Investigations in offenses in 2013

investigations ("Beihilfe zum Mord") against Oskar Gröning after the Demanjuk-verdict: http://www.juedische-allgemeine.de/article/view/id/17845 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.14.180.42 (talk) 12:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

He has conffesed to it today- 145.30.124.11 (talk) 11:56, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

The Jewish intellectual Paul Eisen calls Oskar Gröning's "testimony" worthless with very good reasons:

http://pauleisen.blogspot.de/2012/12/the-not-so-strange-case-of-oskar-groning.html 91.64.206.41 (talk) 17:43, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Use of a Holocaust Denier's Article as a Reference

Reference 5 of this article links to a Holocaust Denier's article on a clearly racist website, newobserveronline.com. Besides finding it offensive to find myself directed to such an article and website while researching a topic on Wikipedia, there is the question of the quality of sources. Surely such a website can not be considered a trustable source.

The reference is used as a citation for a quote by Oskar Groning: "I have seen the crematoria, I have seen the burning pits and I want you to believe me that these atrocities happened. I was there." The point of the article cited is that the BBC "lied" when it translated the original German statement that Groning made in a BBC documentary, claiming that he said crematoria, not gas chamber. I do not speak German and can't speak to this point.

I can say however, that since this is an issue that comes from a BBC documentary and a BBC article and since Groning has spoken about the holocaust for years, a better reference for this quote must be available. A Holocaust Denial article on a racist website is not a good reference. Octangle (talk) 02:16, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Link to verdict, press release

For later http://www.landgericht-lueneburg.niedersachsen.de/portal/live.php?navigation_id=13828&article_id=135413&_psmand=56

Mootros (talk) 09:47, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Currently a prisoner or not

The article does not say:

• if he appealed the sentence in the lower courts
• if he is imprisoned as of 2016, and some geographic detail about the location of his present imprisonment. 178.232.159.73 (talk) 13:35, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Final judgement

On 28th November, German Bundesgerichtshof has refused the revisions, both, of his defendor and some Nebenkläger. So, the punishment of 4 years of prison is final now. I would not edit the article because of my bad English style and Vocabulary, sorry.--Diebu (talk) 18:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Why aren't there exact dates shown???

This man is supposedly well documented as working there and being on the payroll so why isn't there any exact dates for when he worked there? We aren't researching the bible people, this should be a little more accurate coming from a period with black and white t.v. and radio.

Surrendered on 10 June 1945?

This needs an explanation -- how was Gröning able to surrender on 10 June 1945, while the war in Europe had been over since 8 May? --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:09, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Photograph of Oskar Groening

I have reverted repeat vandalism which removed a film poster showing Oskar Groening. What could be more relevant than to have his image in an article devoted to this individual? 109.151.233.154 (talk) 14:58, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Do I really need to put an old picture in my profile picture?

Most Nazi war criminal documents have photos of Nazi activities as profiles. I don't know why you post old pictures as a profile. I think it's better to erase it. Elenamina (talk) 06:18, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Wikipedia articles about people usually contain pictures of them. Example: Adolf Hitler. You are not giving any valid reasons to delete the picture of Gröning. --Hob Gadling (talk) 12:37, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Most of the photos of Nazi war criminals are taken during Nazi activities. Do I really need to post a picture of my old self as a profile picture? I think we need to erase it to match the ratio. Elenamina (talk) 21:37, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I see no reason not to have the picture. You certainly haven't given one. DuncanHill (talk) 22:07, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay. Then I'll upload the picture. Elenamina (talk) 22:22, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I meant the existing picture. What picture are you talking about uploading? DuncanHill (talk) 22:50, 18 June 2023 (UTC)