Talk:Ombersley and Doverdale

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One parish or two

The parish council website, and the Neighbourhood Development Plan, assert that this is one parish, but several other sources suggest that the two separate parishes exist. I have sent a message to the parish clerk via their contact page, saying "I ... have been working on Wikipedia articles on civil parishes. I created an article for "Ombersley and Doverdale" on the strength of the statement on the parish council website that said the parish was created in 1973: my problem is that every other source I look at suggests the two parishes still exist as separate entities: OS mapping, 2011 census at the NOMIS website, the NH list of listed buildings, and the https://mapit.mysociety.org/ website. Could you please refer me to some official source, preferably online, which confirms that there really is just the one parish? I know there are other places where there is a joint parish council for two or more parishes, but your website, and the NDP, talk about this as a single parish, which is different. ..." and will await their reply with interest. PamD 14:39, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@PamD: I've tagged the "civil parish" with {{dubious}}. Indeed it seems to be a joint PC that runs to current CPs and that the 2 parishes had separate councils until 1973 when they were merged but the CPs themselves remained separate, just like the fact that Skelsmergh and Scalthwaiterigg CP was created in 2015 but "Skelsmergh and Scalthwaiterigg Parish Council" was created in 2007. Ordnance Survey and Mapit show both "Ombersley"[1][2] and "Doverdale"[3][4] as still being separate. So yes while the council does suggest its a parish, the 1st thing it makes reference to is the "parish council" even though it has a map of the parish suggesting its a parish. Also UKBMD doesn't mention anything about a merge. Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:01, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reference to the name without "Parish Council" is here but in the heading it uses "Parish/Town Council". Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:06, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a footnote in the main article. I await a reply from the parish clerk! It would be a pity to have to abolish the article. PamD 15:08, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Crouch, Swale: Interesting: the 2021 NDP mentions the parish, but thereafter talks about the "Neighbourhood Area", having a population of 2,360 (=the NOMIS figure for Ombersley parish), having 153 listed buildings (evidently forgetting the 6 which NHLE finds in Doverdale), and with a map (page 7) which clearly includes both parishes. It capitalises Neighbourhood Area throughout: is this some new sort of entity which ought to be described in a Wikipedia article? PamD 15:16, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Answer to self: yes: here. Perhaps needs a mention in some wiki article on UK planning, and a redirect. Neighbourhood Area is currently a red link. PamD 15:20, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update: it's now a redirect to info I found and added. PamD 15:42, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@PamD: And on page 8 it says "It comprises all of the parish of Ombersley and Doverdale, an area of 3,183 hectares" when the area for "Ombersley" alone is 3,183.72 hectares according to NOMIS. It says "no data" for Doverdale so comparing the map NOMIS seems to have merged the data just like it has merged Chickney into Henham [5]. City Population gives Ombersley area as being 31.84 km² but unlike NOMIS it indeed is only showing Ombersley on the map. For Doverdale City Population gives its area as 3.034 km² but doesn't give its population, probably as mentioned before to protect privacy for small parishes. Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:34, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@PamD: If you look at Kettering Town for example you can see that the OS and Mapit show the parish not to include the former unparished area and still shows Corby as being unparished. If you look at the order you can see the area the OS shows as being "Kettering Town" parish is only part "A" namely land taken from Cranford parish, the rest is missing. What's probably happened is that only change "A" has been processed by the OS while the rest (and Corby) hasn't though I can't find Corby's order at the moment. That's why on my parishes project I listed "Kettering Town" as being on hold until this error is corrected since it should otherwise redirect to Kettering. With regards to Ombersley and Doverdale I've been unable to find any evidence of a CP by this name other than from the councils and it seems quite plausible they are confusing joint parish councils with CPS. Its quite possible many people running the council may not know the difference. If a parish of this size was a CP I think the error would have been noticed in the last almost 50 years so absence of any orders that say a CP has been formed under the name "Ombersley and Doverdale" I think its safe to say its a grouped council. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:39, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have had a reply with photos of documents which confirm the creation of a joint parish council but seem to me to confirm that the parishes were not combined - I replied on those lines, and was told that the parish council will consider this at their next meeting. PamD 10:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have heard nothing more from the council, so now assume that in fact this is not a combined parish! Will now unpick the Wikipedia articles. PamD 15:04, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]