Talk:Olympic flame

manipulations

There were almost 50 edits in the last 2 days often insert false information. Many edits were from IPs and possibly related regarding protest concerning Tibet and the games in China. So this this article needs to be proof read once the dust has settled and recent edition should be read with some skepticism.--Kmhkmh (talk) 11:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Should the page be protected, at least for the short term?

Padsley (talk) 12:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Well i would support that. However i just came across it by change. I don't know whether anybody was currently observing or maintaining the article--Kmhkmh (talk) 13:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I is spyin' Padsley (talk) 14:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I found this because the IP's had a warning regarding it! This IP is used by a lot of people (I think there's the latter end of a thousand) so I can't speak for everyone that uses this IP Address but as someone sensible I would say that putting some kind of restriction for IP Addresses on this page is defintiely a good idea. 82.33.215.26 (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

older entries

What is the origin of the name OLYMPIA in Greek, from which the Olympic games were made. The meaning is unknown. Just as Greece's Alpha-Beta was borrowed from Semites and their Aleph-Bet, many unknown Greek words can be explained in Proto-Semitic. When a P ends a word element, and is preceded by an M, it is likely a nasalized Semitic term. This occurs in the word PUMP, which began as a PIPE to draw water away, which, in turn is from ABOOBH, a Semitic word for a hollow reed. All this explains why OLYMIA (thus the OLYMPICS) is likely from Proto-Semitic ALOOPH (champion). In a prehistoric Olympic village the Hellenic athletes ate a breakfast of champions. Aleph-Lamed-Vav-Phey, ALOOPH (champion) appears in Genesis. More etymolgy (really EMeTology) at www.edenics.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.166.84 (talk) 20:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, the article says that the flame has been carried by airplane. I find this unlikely and not believable. Fire onboard an airplane is very risky. Also there is no-one who could check if the fire REALLY was on while flying. I think this article needs reference to PROOF that they really transported the fire on board an airplane. -anon-

I too find it dubious that a flame would be carried on an aircraft, even in one of the closed lanterns. In fact, if you watch the footage of the flame being delivered to the Tower Of London in 2012, after being rapelled from a helicopter, it's possible to see that the lantern is not lit once it's near the camera on the ground. The bearer takes it to a hut-like building and you can just about see him being handed a lit lantern before the flame continues on it's journey... 82.34.164.19 (talk) 11:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

"Fire onboard an airplane is very risky. "

Not particularly. After all, smoking on aircraft was permitted until fairly recently, and that was stopped for health reasons, not fire hazard. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

How on earth was the torch carried by laser and sattellite? This should be explained clearly. Thanks, Meelar 18:30, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

I found a somewhat longer explanation : "In ter, a machine collected the ionized particles of the flame and transformed it in electronic impulses. They were then transmitted via satellite trough the Atlantic to Ottawa, in Canada, where they activated a laser beam, which relighted the flame. In seconds, the flame had crossed the world." I'll see if I can work this in the article. Jeronimo 06:37, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

The German version of the "Olympic_Flame" claims that it was re-introduced in the Berlin games of 1936 and not in 1928 as claimed by the English wiki article. 1936 was confirmed by a documentary in which Prof. Ulrich Sinn from the University of Wuerzburg explained the connection of the flame to the modern Olympics. Prof. Sinn appears to be one of the most prominent current scientists that study the ancient Olympia location.

The Olympic Fire was definitely reintroduced at the 1928 Olympics. You may read this at the site of the IOC for example, there's even some pictures there. [1] However, the first torch relay was held in 1936, also marking the first time the fire was lit in Olympia. So I'm afraid professor Sinn is incorrect about this. Jeronimo 18:37, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think there might be a confusion between lighters and last runners. In the '92 Olympic Games, archer Antonio Rebollo did light the torch by shooting and arrow, but was not the last runner. This was basketball player Epi, who ran along the stadium track and light the archer's arrow. 82.41.77.46 16:33, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I will fix this. Jeronimo 18:39, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Why is the info about 1980 Moscow games missing? They had the same route of Olympic flame begun in Olympia....

I have added to following paragraph : "In 2004, the first global torch relay was undertaken, in a journey that lasted 78 days. The Olympic flame covered a distance of more than 78,000 km in the hands of some 11,300 torchbearers, traveling to Africa and Latin America for the first time, visiting all previous Olympic cities and finally returning to Athens for the 2004 Summer Olympics." I've tried to squeeze in the major facts of the event, with moderate emphasis on its "grandeur", but I’m not sure about the result. Does it blend well into the rest of the article? Ninio 01:18, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Was a torch relay EVER solely done by human power?

For example, if it had to cross the english channel, did a swimmer ever stroke with one hand and keep the torch up with the other? This would seem to me to be the true spirit of the Olympics. I just saw a news cast where the torch was brought via a jumbo jet to the UK. I really hate the modern Olympics. Needs an incredible revamp.

-G

Likewise, I was wondering if it was ever a true, continuous foot relay from Athens to Host City X, as opposed to Athens => get on a plane => run around in Buenos Aires => get on a boat => run a few miles in Seattle => get on a plane, etc. There's not much history about the older relays, aside from the Nazi heritage... 64.178.41.22 (talk) 18:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Spoken Wiki

Am currently laying down tracks for a spoken version of this article, and gaining new appreciation for Olympic commentators who have to pronounce these names under pressure during events - yeesh! Potteryfreak 23:05, 9 January 2006 (UTC) Done. Potteryfreak 00:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

What if the Olympic Flame goes out?

What if the Olympic Flame goes out while someone is running with the torch? Is it a dishonour to the torch and does it happen frequently or does it ever happen? Silent Nemesis2710 08:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

It goes out occasionally. There are typically backup lanterns (also lit in Olympia) carried along with the main torch. I've added an external link from the time of the Sydney Games that discusses technology and relighting. To quote from near the bottom of it:

"If the torch goes out there is no need to call off the games or return to Olympia to re-light the flame. Flameouts have happened before. The Atlanta torch had a 'quick design review' while still in Greece and the Nagano torch experienced multiple flameouts over seven days.

After each flameout, the torches were re-ignited with flame from a miner's lantern, also lit by the original sacred flame. 10 back-up lanterns travel with the Sydney 2000 procession."

Hope that helps. -- Jonel | Speak 09:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

The flame was put out in Paris, France in 2008 and transported via bus for at least some part of its journey, apparently to avoid protesters.Prothonotar (talk) 05:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The flame had been put out 2 times, the first in the 1976 Olympic Games in Montreal. It is stated here: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/1976_Summer_Olympics under highlights sixth point. 218.186.8.10 10:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Is the "mother" flame, a fire that has been burning for a very long time? I didn't notice mention of it in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.121.221.12 (talk) 22:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

2008 Taiwan Torch problem

I want to write something regarding the current negotiations regarding the Beijing torch going to the island of Taiwan. Do you guys think it's ok to place it in this article?ValerioC 02:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Nicolasdz (talk) 16:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

No. It can be put into a seperate article. Since it has little to do with the actual torch, but rather a political issue. --142.150.139.64 (talk) 17:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems to have everything to do with the torch; specifically the path of the torch and the political considerations that have gone into it. By the way, why was the section marked as non-neutral? I don't see any critique of its neutrality, and don't see anything in the text that looks non-neutral. Prothonotar (talk) 05:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

From the article: "Negotiations stalled when Taiwan demanded that the flag and anthem of the Republic of China be displayed on the route, instead of the Chinese Taipei flag and anthem." Isn't this backwards? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.248.107.194 (talk) 19:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

To the previous commenter, 'Republic of China' is the self-given name of the Taiwanese government: Republic of China. Not to be confused with the People's Republic of China, which is the mainland government. Prothonotar (talk) 05:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

There are lots of article which have critisism about the subject of the article on the same page. It has a lot to do with the actual torch; one of the reasons why there are so many protests around the torch is that it is supposed to be a symbol of liberty and all that jazz. Sport and political issues can't be separated, it's like saying that I'm going to play cricket without using physics. Anyway... I also fail to see how the section on the 2008 Torch relay is non-neutral. I also fail to see any discussion on HOW it is non-neutral. This is also not the correct page to discuss the China/Tibet issue. Leaving the article as 'there are protests about the torch' and such things, statements of fact like that, should be fine. I think we should remove the non-neutrality flag.

Padsley (talk) 11:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The physical torch(es) is/are where?

The article doesn't specify where the torch goes after the games are over. The reason I'm asking this is because the Ripley's Believe It Or Not! museum in Manhattan has a display of all of the torches from the last 40 years or so. I can only assume that they are replicas I find that having at least the last twenty torches in one spot would be odd. If someone could find out whether it they are real or replicas, please let me know via my talk page, add add to the article if they do happen to be real. Thanks. Socby19 (talk) 04:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

There is no single Olympic torch; many, many torches are produced for each Olympics. At least recently torch-bearers have generally had the option to purchase the torch they ran with. Those you saw at Ripley's are very likely real. Original torches, used in the torch relay, are widely collected, though relatively expensive. I have one from the 1996 Atlanta games. Fuzzzone (talk) 19:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

How is it lit..?

Is it by the sun.? or some eternal flame on mount olympus.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.108.73.47 (talk) 11:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

This one was done with a parabolic mirror using the Sun's rays.

Padsley (talk) 11:13, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect dating

As per article:

When the Olympic flame came to the Panathinaiko Stadium, stadium of the 1896 Summer Olympics, to start the global torch relay, the night was very windy and the torch, lit by the Athens 2004 Organizing Committee Gianna Angelopoulos-Daskalaki, blew out due to the wind, but was re-lit from the back up flame taken from the original ceremonial flame at Olympia. This was the second time that the Olympic torch flame was put out.

Either 2004 or 1896 are incorrect. Trav (talk) 13:13, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The stadium was used for both the 1896 and 2004 games, I presume. When the torch was taken in 2004 into the stadium (that was also used for the 1896 games) it blew out. I think that that part of the article should be rephrased to avoid confusion. Padsley (talk) 11:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Extinguished?

Is the flame really extinguished after the end of each Olympics? I know the flame at Squaw Valley is still burning; I drive by it several times a year. EAE (Holla!) 06:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Diem,Goebbels,Hitler

The original promoter/creater of the torch run idea was Diem. However Goebbels was managing/supervising the propaganda effort around the games. So the 2 people closely associated with the torch run's origin are Diem and Goebbels and should be mentioned as such. Hitler as dictator was of cause kinda supervising both, but afaik he was not that closely involved in the actual implementation and management.--Kmhkmh (talk) 08:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Marketing?

"The Olympic Flame, Olympic Fire, Olympic Torch, Olympic Light, Olympic Eye, and Olympic Sun are all names for an important **marketing** promotion and symbol of the Olympic Games."

I disagree with the word "marketing" here (although it is true that you can actually buy torch replicas). Anyone object to my removing it? 88.32.216.139 (talk) 13:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No objections at all. This is an absolute mischaracterisation of the flame and its spirit. Please go ahead and remove it. Dr.K. (talk) 03:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

It was this edit. Obviously uncited speculation. Dr.K. (talk) 03:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but I changed it because it had to be fixed as soon as possible because it was a bad example of WP:OR. Thank you for your comment. Dr.K. (talk) 03:41, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Olympic Eye, Olympic Light, Sun etc.

These were added by an old edit (diff). These terms are not common. The concept here is the "Flame" not the "Eye", the "Light" or the "Sun". Until reliable sources are used for the "Light", the "Eye" or the "Sun" they should not appear again in the article. Dr.K. (talk) 22:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Nazi inspired"

I have removed these two recent additions. I think the origins of the torch relay in Nazi Germany are already clearly detailed. Saying that it was "invented by the Nazis" is an unnecessary simplification - better to say when it began and then go into the details, as the article does. And I think it is completely unfair and inflammatory to have the lead photo caption refer to the 2002 Torch Relay as "Nazi inspired". Absent any proof that the Salt Lake Organizing Committee took their inspiration directly from Adolf Hitler, I don't think it is fair to say that. They were simply carrying on in the tradition of many previous organizers. - Eron^Talk 16:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree completely. If we follow the previous editor's logic then we have to call the Volkswagen Beetle also Nazi inspired or Hitler approved. This kind of inflammatory rhetoric and oversimplification of facts has no place in an encyclopedia. Dr.K. (talk) 17:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The first marathon was NOT in the 1928 in Amsterdam... They didn't make a marathon with the olympic Flame... The FIRST olympic Flame Marathon was in 1936 by the nazis. IT IS A FACT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.74.205.200 (talk) 19:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This article is about the Olympic Flame, not just the Olympic Torch relay. The fact that the relay was started in 1936 is in the article already. - Eron^Talk 21:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It seems clear that the 1936 Games were used as a propaganda tool, but I don't see how relaying a torch has anything to do with "Nazi ideology". And although he was involved in media coverage of the Olympics, the reference to Goebbels strikes me as gratuitous. Removed. -Wiccan Quagga (talk) 18:35, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

The whole "the Nazis used the 1936 Games as a propaganda tool" is stupid beyond belief. The propaganda was... what? Because the german flag had a swastika? Because the Games were in, God forbid, Germany? Because the Games were more modern than the one four years before? There were no political speeces at the Games, and the talk about Germany "wanted to prove aryan superiority" is nonsense. They treated participants of all colors equally, and Jesse Owens was portrayed as a sports hero in the german films, books and magazines.

I don't like the sentence "The film was part of the Nazi propaganda machine’s attempt to add myth and mystique to Adolf Hitler’s regime.". It's not true. IOC asked Leni Riefenstahl to make the film, and she and her crew made it, not the Propaganda Ministry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.182.136.178 (talk) 22:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Can't tell

Does anyone know for sure whether the paralympic and olympic flame is the same. There seems to be a different history of both. But they appear to be described as the same flame here? Benjwong (talk) 04:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Ancient Olympics

I've put a "citation needed" tag on references to there being a flame symbolising, or only lit during, the ancient Olympics. Of the references given, the Britannica says "A perpetual fire was indeed maintained in Hera’s temple, but it had no role in the ancient Games" and the NYT article just says "A sacred flame did burn 24 hours a day at Olympia", without commenting on its significence to the Games, if any. The Times article does say "The torch relay is a celebration of the ancient fires that burnt through the original Olympiads", but that's pretty vague (especially since, classically, "Olympiad" meant "four year period from one Games to the next"), and was written by a journalist, not a historian. There's no mention of it in the Ancient Olympics article, either. Daibhid C (talk) 15:16, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The Route followed by the flame ...

... is completely speculation as it does not have one single reference. I have added tags to each line and to the whole section. Such information without references is pron to vandalism and it should be either referenced or removed. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 01:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

This article is a disaster

Who thought that putting after every other word in} this article would be a good idea? It looks terrible. Just because something needs to be cited, it doesn't need a big fat header. Cite it yourself, or use this as appropriate:

GeeCee (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree, this looks terrible. You could, of course, have corrected this yourself, according to Wikipedia principles. -- megA (talk) 10:52, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Olympic flame in the 2010 Winter Olympics torch relay

Hi. According to the article, the Olympic Flame has only gone out during a few relays. However, in the 2010 relay, it appears that the flame is ignited and extinguished through a switch system, so that non-official torchbearers such as regular Canadians (?) could hold the flame, and the article on the flame itself shows the unlit flame. Is this unusual? Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 23:07, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Misspelling

It's Catriona, not "Katrina."

Semi Protected So I Can't Change This Myself...

If someone could fix the sentence ""The athletes were to smoke the poles with the torches and light them up which went to the cauldron." with regards to the 2010 ceremony that might be a good idea.

"smoke the poles"" while funny, is not really the correct wording. "The athletes were to simultaneously light the base of the poles, which would then carry the flame upwards to the cauldron" might be better, thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spackling (talk • contribs) 07:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

 Done--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

The lighting of Vancovers

The "Official" one was lit by Wayne Gretzky Also, there was one person due to technical error who was not able to light the psudo one... So unfortunately I feel that they should not be included in the wiki. but which one should we say was lit? I honestly think we should just stick with Gretzky since he lit the one that is the official torch. Further Edit: This needs to be edited in two places: the paragraph before the chart... ends with saying the four lit it simultaneously ... only three lit that torch, however, once again... it was Wayne Gretzky that lit the TRUE final torch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.58.9 (talk) 08:05, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the final torch bearer was Gretzky lighting the permanment torch outside which is suppose to be lit for rest of the Olympics. Can someone make the change to this semi-protected section?

Reference: [2] --Hellbringervic (talk) 21:12, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Can someone add an edit to indicate that VANOC made humorous light of the BC Place cauldron malfunction during the Closing Ceremonies by having a mime appear to "fix" the broken 4th arm and Katrina LeMay Doan finally being given her opportunity to light the cauldron after she was left out during the Opening Ceremonies? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.167.126 (talk) 02:07, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Torch Designs

Should there be a section about the different designs of the torches in all the Olympics? I know they are different for each olympics but I couldn't find any info in wikipedia on what they all looked like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kosridge (talk • contribs) 15:58, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Deleting the section "List"

Can we delete the section called "List"? It's merely a duplication of List of people who have lit the Olympic Cauldron, which is linked to right after, in the section "Cauldron". -- Zanimum (talk) 22:28, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like someone duplicated that table back to this article.[3] I went ahead and removed it again. Zzyzx11 (talk) 07:47, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Merci. -- Zanimum (talk) 15:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Possible Misspelling

I may be wrong, but I believe that there is a typo. The article says that 1976 winter games were held in Innsburck. I believe that the correct spelling is Innsbruck. If I am correct could someone please change this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.7.66 (talk) 23:19, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

 Done The 1976 Winter Olympics were in Innsbruck, not Innsburck.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

More Ancient Origins

I was watching Horrible Histories and it said that in relay races at the Ancient Games, one end of the torch was on fire so the runners had to be careful when they handed it over. Instantly I thought of the Olympic torch relay when they mentioned this. The link to the episode with the feature in is here http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012mhv3/Horrible_Histories_Series_3_Episode_11/ the section starts at 20:25 but it is only available until 2nd August 2011 and it is only available to people in the UK with a TV license (If you don't have one you could get arrested). I will try to find some more sources that say this fact so people from other countries can see a source at any time. 82.5.224.82 (talk) 19:21, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

This is what the Beijing 2008 website says though I am not sure for how long the site will stay up. "The Ancient Greeks held a "lampadedromia" (the Greek word for Torch Relay), where athletes competed by passing on the Flame in a relay race to the finish line. In ancient Athens the ritual was performed during the Panathenaia fest, held every four years in honour of the goddess Athena. The strength and purity of the sacred Flame was preserved through its transportation by the quickest means; in this case a relay of Torchbearers. The Torch Relay carried the Flame from the altar of Prometheus to the altar of goddess Athena on the Acropolis. Forty youths from the ten Athenian tribes had to run a distance of 2.5 kilometers in total." Here is the link to the site http://torchrelay.beijing2008.cn/en/archives/others/n214039831.shtml If the article is correct I would suggest that it be included in the article. 82.5.224.82 (talk) 19:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Olympic [insert name here].

I thought the Olympic items were as follows:

Olympic Flame = The flame/fire itself.

Olympic Torch = The handheld torch.

Olympic Cauldron = The main thingy lit by the last torch bearer in the Olympic Stadium.

Since the Sydney Olympics at least, the so-called "cauldron" hasn't been a cauldron at all as Sydney had a disc, Athens an Olympic Torch itself and Beijing had a scroll. So I'm wondering, is there a better word we could use other then "Cauldron"? All I ever seem to think of is a Witch's cook pot (hehe). AnimatedZebra (talk) 00:58, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Number of women lighting the torch

Hi, I saw this sentence "Eleven women, representing the Vestal Virgins, perform a ceremony...". This does not stroke with this image File:Greece 2004 Olympics flame ceremony DSC04251.jpg, which shows 12 women in the ceremony of 2004. Can someone enlighten this please. Thank you, Taketa (talk) 20:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

File:The Olympic Cauldron in Vancouver.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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2012 Disabled Rights Protests at Olympic Torch Ceremony

Why no coverage of the large number of disabled people who attended the torch ceremony this evening (18 May 2012)to protest at the use of Atos to sponsor the paralympic games? Has it been edited out? 212.139.100.244 (talk) 01:17, 19 May 2012 (UTC)twl212.139.100.244 (talk) 01:17, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Barcelona lighting

The report about the flame of the 1992 Olympics contradicts another wikipedia entry: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics The flame was light by a technician not the arrow itself. Chrisp7 (talk · contribs) 09:50, 28 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.26.93 (talk)

Iamwretched (talk) 18:58, 4 January 2014 (UTC)OK. I have modified the section on the Barcelona lighting to reflect the current state of affairs regarding conflicting reports about what really happened. I hope I have done it respectfully and correctly!

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Helsinki 1952 torch

Why is the picture of Helsinki 1952 torch missing? --2001:999:10:391:85A6:2978:52CB:7DCD (talk) 02:01, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

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• Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5gKmh3MNF?url=http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_655.pdf to http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_655.pdf

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Antorcha-barcelona.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 12:52, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Other sites

How is the flame at other sites lighted? Is a torch lighted at the cauldron and then carried to the other sites? 104.153.40.58 (talk) 00:28, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Paris 2024 Cauldron needed

When will the image of the Paris 2024 Cauldron be released? Abhiramakella (talk) 07:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC)