Talk:Nyotaimori/Archives/2014

sashimi to sushi

Toytoy has modified sashimi to sushi. It is my understanding that, despite the English name 'body sushi', it actually refers to the eating of sashimi off the body of a naked woman. Could somebody confirm whether this is correct or not and change it if necessary. I have never eaten it myself.

Bathrobe 15:34, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be better to make the main entry "Nyotaimori" instead of "Body sushi" and mention any english nicknames for the phenomenon/dish in the first paragraph and as #REDIRECTS? It seems the concept refers simply to the practice of using an attractive woman as a plate to serve seafoodish food from.

Incidentally, a quick Google trip reveals photographs of unclad ladies scantily covered with plain seafood, but with sushi as well.. ([1])

Any 女体盛 expert care to comment?

JeroenHoek 17:47, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sushi has a broader definition in english than it does in japanese, this article title should be fine. Japanese might be more specific about rolls, with or without rice, etc. I've seen it in the US as "naked sushi" and made that redirect.

Back ground info

How wide spread is this practice? I don't know much about Japanese culture. But it seams this would be an uncommon practice only done in certian circles. Please add more background info.

Agreed - I find the statement that it is "it is well accepted in Japan as an art" highly dubious. Western perception of this practice is almost certainly distorted way out of proportion due to reporting by media enthusiastically pouncing on anything sexual that can be passed off as art.

A quick look at Japanese sources seems to confirm this. In fact the wikipedia article seemed to be copied in large parts from an FAQ [2] written by someone who needed to be corrected about the spelling, i.e. obviously incapable of reading primary sources. I found one Japanese blog [3] which said "Apaprently nyotaimori is some sort of fad in Europe right now and there are are lot of Europeans who think that for Asian (or rather Japanese) people it's a common entertainment.". The Japanese wikipedia article is rahter short, basically no more than the English one except for describing two nyotaimori-related scandals (one in China, the other about a toned-down version offered during a school festival). I changed the article accordingly. --Brazzy 20:19, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The FAQ cited above says that nyotaimori can be found in some British sushi bar if you specifically ask for it, it costs £75, and you can only use chopsticks, not your fingers. I was recently at a BDSM event where there was a nyotaimori display, and:

1. It was open for everyone, you didn't have to ask for it, in fact they advertised it and invited you in,
2. You were allowed to use your fingers, and
3. It only cost €2 (less than £1.5) per plate.

Is this because it was only open for one hour, and you only got 2 pieces of sushi for your €2, or are Finnish prices and services that much better than British? — JIP | Talk 16:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I've been living in Japan for 25years, but I've never heard about real life nyotaimori. I thought nyotaimori is a fiction or urban legend... --02:54, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

It might very well be that despite its image, noytaimori actually only exists outside Japan. Europeans and Americans heard about it in Japan, but failed to realise it was an urban legend, and then decided to try it for real. I have never visited Japan, but I have seen real life nyotaimori in Europe, albeit it was only for a very short time. — JIP | Talk 18:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

See here for pictures of the event. — JIP | Talk 13:36, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That is a dead link nowadays, instead see here. JIP | Talk 20:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm another longtime Japan resident, and this smells like one of those tabloidy weekly magazine staged publicity stunt stories that are so common here. Not that it has never happened, but I doubt that it exists in any real sense. This falls into the same category as the magazine articles that claim that 70% of high school girls are part-time prostitutes and most of the rest are selling their used underwear in back alleys.

Haha totally. Sounds like something some Westerner with an Asian fetish saw in fake, overpriced ukiyo-e. 76.126.137.85 (talk) 07:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Sexist Nomenclature

The Japanese word, and the text of the article, imply a female body. However, I know for a fact that the same method of presentation is sometimes undertaken with a male body. Do we need a separate article for this, or is this a good reason to revert to Body sushi as a title, or what? The present situation irritates my feminist side.--Haruo 01:35, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps, if Body sushi was a correct title, but it isn't. Somehow it strikes me as odd to name an article xxx sushi if it is about naked persons being used as dishes for a lot of things not called sushi. JeroenHoek 09:11, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, it's arguable that those "things not called sushi" actually are called sushi by many at least in the US. As we say "buffalo" when we mean "bison". And as one can easily confirm through Google or a visit to one of the restaurants that puts on these displays, some of what is served actually is sushi. --Haruo 19:27, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ambiguous word "eaten"

When you say the sushi is "eaten from the body of a naked woman", do you mean that people actually pick it up in their mouths off the woman, or do they pick it up with their fingers or chopsticks and then eat it elsewhere? From my experience it's the latter but the article doesn't make this clear. — JIP | Talk 16:28, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Would "served" be a better description? BillFlis 20:09, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Review and illustration

From a recent Chicago Tribune: [4] -EDM 18:36, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

random thoughts on this particular article

Greetings and salutations from Japan! I am sort of surprised to find this bizarre article in Wikipedia though ;)

Although I am by no means a nyotaimori expert, let me leave some comments.

You may not be able to find 'nyotaimori' in any of Japanese dictionaries, because the word is too minor and impractical as well as 'politically incorrect', but the word nyotaimori does exist, mostly in association with the well-known hentai culture (anime and computer games probably). Though I don't know of the word's origin, it's not just an urban legend.

By the way, the word nyotaimori doesn't specify what food to be arranged, so any food other than Japanese cuisine would do, at least so I think, as long as it's edible. Buffet style cuisine preferably? But I suppose there are some reasons why sushi and sashimi are always welcome...

Though nyotaimori basically is a fictional thing (POV?) , and it'd be sort of question should it take place in a practical manner (and then come out to light :) ), I know a few (or very few it might be) curious artists have tried nyotaimori in actuality too. Like, while you may not use a gauss rifle as a practical weapon as on sci-fi, you can experiment on its magnetical behaviour on smaller scale!

An experimental yet somewhat intriguing nyotaimori article done by a certain female freelance writer can be found at http://umemiya.hp.infoseek.co.jp/mori.html this is of course in Japanese and I am not going to translate though ;)

And, if some citation is needed, you'd better fetch a hentai expert rather than a useless Japanese like me ;)

--221.170.196.101 03:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, nyotaimori is in no way fictional or unknown to Japanese. Their first prime minister was famous for his love of it!struggle 19:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I have known for almost a year that nyotaimori is by no means fictional. As for unknown to the Japanese, I don't know, as I don't know anyone Japanese. JIP | Talk 20:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Category??

Someone just removed the category of "Cuisine".

I'm considering removing the category of "Sexual Acts". First off, we must all recognize the fact that nudity does not equal sex. Nyotaimori is a method of serving food. That's it. I've spoken to Japanese people about this. They were aware of the practice, but none of them spoke of any sexual acts occuring during the "festivities".

According to Merriam-Webster, a sex act is 1) Coitus [physical union of male and female genitalia accompanied by rhythmic movements] or 2) an act performed with another for sexual gratification. [i.e. some form of genital stimulation and/or orgasm]

I believe neither of these is occurring during Nyotaimori. Yes, I'm sure it's most likely thrilling for the customers, but I would highly doubt that anyone would get caught masturbating under the table, much less out in the open. Further more, I would highly doubt that many customers even get aroused, due to the fact that they're typically surrounded by a large group of people. I have not heard a single account of a woman's genitals being stimulated by a customer. She's lying too still to be performing any acts on the customers. There is no sex going on.

To support my point of view here, I would ask someone to consider strip clubs. Is one performing a sexual act when they watch a stripper dance naked? What if a person decides to eat a cheeseburger while watching the stripper dance? Have they committed a sexual act? What if the stripper picks up a burger and feeds it to a customer? How about if a stripper places a hamburger between her breasts and mashes a young man's face into it? Has a sexual act been committed? I don't believe so.

What we have here is nude women delivering food. Nothing more. Although it would be illogical to think that it has never happened, we don't have any form of genital stimulation going on here. If some horny customers decide to take it step further, I believe the practice in question has ceased to exist, being replaced by the act of fellatio, cunnilingus, or whatever you could possibly dream up. I suppose Nyotaimori could continue on during some other sex act, but that does not make the practice itself a sex act. Eating a cheeseburger during sex does not make eating a cheeseburger a sex act.

This poses the question: What category does this practice belong in?? It's not a method of preparing or cooking food. It's a method of serving food.

Any thoughts? VietGrant 05:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Some erotica-related category that isn't about actual sexual acts, perhaps? I agree with your point above. I've been to a strip club and seen a nyotaimori display, but there were no actual sexual acts happening in either place. I do think nyotaimori is intended as an erotic practice, though. JIP | Talk 05:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Just because the woman is prostituting herself doesn't mean it is anything to do with sex. 87.194.35.230

I think it should have one category in common with Striptease & simallar states of undress and one or two in common with roti, sandwiches & picnics. I think their might be a word for the kind of food art that Careme did at the Royal Pavilion and if so it should be a category. 87.194.35.230 11:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this clearly falls into the realm of sexual behaviour. It's seems to have much in common with food fetishism. It doesn't enhance the taste of the food at all so it can only be for sexual or artistic purposes. BodvarBjarki (talk) 16:35, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Chop Sticks

The article should mention chop sticks. Knives and forks can be dangerous. 87.194.35.230 15:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I had never imagined anyone would ever eat nyotaimori with anything other than their fingers or chopsticks. JIP | Talk 14:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Or their mouths directly.Cameron Nedland 15:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Article

The current article looks like a mess. There are too many sections with far too little content per section. Most of the sections should be grouped together. There are also no verifiable sources. I know nyotaimori exists - I've seen it - but personal memory hardly constitutes a verifiable source. The article should also have some pictures. There are online pictures of the nyotaimori display I saw, but I can't add them, as they are copyrighted by a BDSM organisation. JIP | Talk 19:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, adding a link to the pix in the main article -- such as you did on the talk page -- would get around any copyright concerns. (And as a sushi-lover who also happens to be rather kinky, I say about the pix: Mrrrowrr!) --Marnen Laibow-Koser (talk) (desk) 08:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

This article is in way too many categories. See here: Category:Types of restaurants Category:Sushi Category:Sexuality and society Category:Sexual fetishism Category:Sexual acts Category:Restaurant terminology Category:Japanese words and phrases Category:Japanese sex terms Category:Nudity Category:Meals Category:People in food and agriculture occupations Category:Servants Category:Women in art Category:Human skills Category:Modeling Category:Crafts Category:Body art Category:Ceremonial food and drink

The only defining aspects of nyotaimori I can see is that it's about sushi, and it's about nude women. This should cut down the number of categories to a third, at the most. But I don't know yet which exact categories to select. JIP | Talk 19:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I've removed some of the non-relevant and only slightly-related categories. Robotman¹⁹⁷⁴ 20:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. JIP | Talk 05:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Another variation of the human platter is the "bondage sushi bar", which can be found in some BDSM conventions and play parties in Britain and in Europe.

Last time I checked, Britain was in Europe... JIP | Talk 20:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Possible source

A friend pointed me at this link. Dcoetzee 04:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Possibly insignificant

I happen to read about this on cbs13.com's "2008 Year Of Weirdness" slideshow[5]. According to my mini investigation, the featured Minneapolis restaurant in a February report actually closed doors in April, just two months later [6]. This might suggest to a skeptical reader that prevalence of legit restaurants that offer this service for a long duration of time may be quite low or virtually nonexistent, in Japan and overseas. Of course, news stations channelling restaurant marketing hype may claim otherwise. Clearly a non-mainstream subject with very few references to actual instances of real world practices. —Tokek (talk) 06:19, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Other culture have traditions of serving food on otherwise unclothed women

I sure the practise of serving food on naked women isn't originally Japanesse. (87.80.103.44 (talk) 21:36, 25 January 2010 (UTC)).

Minor cleanup

I cleaned up some parts of the article, but it's still not that great. I mostly just looked at Julie Bindel's column in The Guardian. My additions may be rather cynical. I wanted to improve the page, but I won't be spending much more time on this subject. It's on my watchlist, though. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 13:07, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

japanfortheuninvited.com

The article quotes something from japanfortheuninvited.com, but this seems to be a mere blog. -- Hoary (talk) 11:27, 18 December 2011 (UTC)