Talk:Northwick Park Hospital

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The hospital's location

I don't think MBRZ48's edit is an improvement.

Saying that the hospital is in the north west corner of Brent ignores that fact that Northwick Park: 1. is on the border of the boroughs of Brent and Harrow; 2. is only a short walk from Harrow town centre; 3. receives funding from both NHS Brent and NHS Harrow; 4. has a significant number of patients from the borough of Harrow. Kanaiyah rules

I propose that we revert to the previous edit. What do others think? Headhitter (talk) 22:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm intrigued that the location is contentious. I was born at NPH, and have been uncertain as to whether I was born in Harrow or Brent - it's a pain when 'place of birth' is used as a security question! My passport says I was born in Harrow, but I'm fairly sure my birth certificate says Brent... 217.33.180.66 (talk) 16:39, 26 February 2013 (UTC)Andrew[reply]

One of my kids was also born at NPH, and the birth certificate shows Brent. Also, if you look at Google maps for Harrow and Brent respectively, both clearly show the hospital being in Brent, albeit only just (the boundary abuts the hospital site on two sides). I've edited the article accordingly, and hopefully we can now draw a line under this - there really shouldn't be any confusion or contest regarding something like this, the hospital is where it is, as is the borough boundary! :) DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:54, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you use the link to the LNWH website, it gives the address as ‘Watford Road, Harrow’. If you use Google Maps and actually click on Northwick Park Hospital, it gives the address as ‘Watford Road, Harrow’. Therefore NPH is in Harrow. Although a different nhs.co.uk website simply gives the address as ‘Watford Road, London, Middlesex’, and says it is in Brent. Harrow, the town, is in Harrow, the borough, not Brent. Children born in NPH to parents whose address is in Brent would have their births registered in Brent, but their actual place of birth would say Northwick Park Hospital, Harrow, on the birth certificate.

I have updated the lead to represent the actual location. As per these official sites: https://www.nhs.uk/Services/hospitals/Overview/DefaultView.aspx?id=104736; https://www.local.gov.uk/london-borough-brent-northwick-park; https://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/18314894.brent-council-approves-northwick-park-hospital-car-park-plans/

AussieWikiDan ^(talk) 12:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The town of Harrow is completely within the borough of Harrow. No part of the town is in the borough of Brent. Either the address is wrong, or the borough boundaries are wrong. They cannot both be right because that would contradict other Wikipedia articles regarding the town of Harrow, the borough of Harrow and the borough of Brent. Official letters from the hospital to patients give the address as being in Harrow, so are all references to the address as being in Harrow wrong? Some postal addresses are from before the establishment of the current boroughs and the names that go along with them, but NPH was built after these changes. (Boroughs formed in 1965, according to Wikipedia articles, and NPH opened in 1970.) Make a decision. If it is in the town of Harrow, it must be in the borough of Harrow. If it is in the borough of Brent, it cannot be in the town of Harrow. It is one or other of these, not both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.19.53.177 (talk) 18:34, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have adjusted the article to show it as being in Harrow per the discussion above. Dormskirk (talk) 18:49, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is a link on the (Wikipedia) article for Northwick Park which is: http://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lgbce/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/11897/651.-london-borough-of-brent-and-its-boundaries-with-barnet,-camden,-ealing,-hammersmith-and-fulham,-harrow,-knc-and-westminster.pdf If the proposals were carried out, back in 1991\92, then NPH is currently in the borough of Harrow, but was previously in the borough of Brent. If anyone can confirm if the changes were actually carried out, and the boundary was moved, then that would solve the problem. The park (playing fields) of Northwick Park stayed in Brent, but the hospital and college (University of Westminster campus) were transferred to Harrow, according to the proposals. If the proposals did not go through, then NPH is probably still in Brent. The 3 links posted on 8th December 2020, do not specify which side of the Harrow/Brent boundary the hospital is on. They mention developments that Brent are proposing, along with other partners, for extra parking for the hospital, without stating if it is on existing hospital property or on land adjacent to it, possibly across a borough boundary, or not.

I totally get the confusion with this topic. I have reverted the recent change to my edit. As I have displayed with my references above, the hospital is located in the boundaries of the town of Harrow. However due to its original development the land was 'gifted' to Harrow town but still remains in the Borough of Brent. This is why our birth certificates state we were born in the Borough of Brent. So I think we can safely rely on the Registrar General at the time.

AussieWikiDan ^(talk) 05:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Birth certificates do not state that NPH is in the borough of Brent. The registration district or sub-district or Greater London borough does not state the address. That is a separate box that would say Harrow, referring to the town. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.19.53.177 (talk) 05:50, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that if we are going to retain the bit "It is located off Watford Road in the London Borough of Brent" in the lead (which seems to be the issue in contention) then it should at least be cited. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 11:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and I have now added 3 citations to this as requested. Hopefully this will resolve the understandable confusion over this. I have definitely looked into this a lot as I recently had to get documents together for citizenship for another country. In regards to the birth certificate, I guess this might depend on individual documents. However mine states details of the Registrar but then also puts my 'Place of Birth' as being the London Borough of Brent. I do believe, as Dormskirk notes, there may be confusion over reference to Watford Road as this I believe is in LB of Harrow. A lot of London has these quirks, for example Brent Reservoir and Brent Cross are not in LB of Brent! AussieWikiDan ^(talk) 13:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 14:29, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Only 1, at best, of the 3 sources actually say that NPH is in Brent whilst also stating that its postal address is Harrow. The other 2 sources, to do with planning permission for a car park, could well be referring to land in the borough of Brent which is currently adjacent to NPH, without actually saying if NPH itself is in Brent or simply located next to Brent on the boundary border. Those sources only bring us back to having a Harrow address in the borough of Brent and have not resolved the issue. If you are going to insist that a part of the town of Harrow is in the borough of Brent, for the purposes of this article, then you must amend the articles on the town of Harrow and the borough of Brent accordingly, otherwise there are multiple articles on Wikipedia that contradict each other. Also, if you travel along the Watford Road from the John Lyon roundabout (it is still officially called that despite the pub no longer being there) towards the large roundabout next to NPH, you will pass a road sign that says something like - 'Welcome to Harrow, twinned with Douai', or words similar to that. That sign is well before you reach NPH, I believe it is opposite the golf course. That sign, or previous incarnations of that sign, has been there since at least the 1980s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.19.53.177 (talk) 20:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All the sources are from government websites. As stated before the hospital is in the boundaries of Harrow (the town) but LB of Brent is its authority/land owner. You can also go to the Mayor of London Planning Permission Map and it shows the hospital is in LB of Brent. Google Maps also shows this if you search 'London Borough of Brent'. AussieWikiDan ^(talk) 03:44, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The 3 sources I was referring to are the ones posted above in this message thread. The Harrow Times is not a government website. So, did the (proposed) boundary changes from 1991/92 pan out or not? Websites confirm that there was a proposal to move the playing fields to Harrow from Brent, but that was rejected, as the Boundary Commission source states. The transfer of the university campus and the hospital was not confirmed as going through or being rejected. If you can confirm that was not followed through with, with direct reference to 'Report No 651', then all will be resolved. Although having part of the town of Harrow in the borough of Brent still makes no sense and contradicts the articles on Harrow and the borough of Brent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.19.53.177 (talk) 15:59, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Having seen someone change the ‘Location’ of the hospital from Harrow to Brent, I have to ask why? If ‘Location’ means the same as postal address then it should be left as Harrow, as the hospital itself uses ‘Harrow’ in the postal address and not ‘Brent’. Given the ‘Location’ gives the postcode, it seems to indicate that the postal address is being given. If you wish to state that the hospital is in the borough of Brent, then do so, but without changing the postal address, that says it is in the town of Harrow. Postal address is Harrow, that is a fact that can be seen on official documentation sent out by the hospital to its patients. Whether or not the hospital is in the borough of Brent of the borough of Harrow is different to the postal address which simply states the town it is in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.219.36 (talk) 00:09, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Article with Missing History

This article is woeful. It reads as a half-hearted piece of publicity for a pretty ordinary hospital. There is no understanding of the history of the establishment of the new hospital with the MRC-funded Clinical Research Centre. What on earth is the "Clinical Research Council"? Gordoncph (talk) 07:52, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct. It was wrong. JFW | T@lk 22:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Updates 22 Nov 2014

I've made some updates. For completeness I should declare a COI as I am employed by the Trust. JFW | T@lk 22:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]