Talk:Normandy landings/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 11:42, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Lead Y Background Y Operations Y Deception plans Y - For clarity, I recommend stating that Taxable and Glimmer were intended to simulate a naval force off the Pas de Calais.Y Weather Y German order of battle Y - a number of issues There are discrepancies with Niehorster's ORBAT (Niehorster is a reliable specialist source on ORBATs, see http://orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/44-oob/44-06-01_neptune/b/corps_84.htm), at first glance, I don't see the 914th Arty Regt with 352nd Infantry Division, Niehorster has the 352nd Arty Regt (the divisional arty regt, which is what you would expect). Also, the 91st Luftlande Infantry Division was a direct command formation of 7th Army, not under command of LXXXIVth Corps on 6 June.Y The Germans were actually organised into Coastal Defence Zones, based on divisional groupings, which didn't correspond to the Allied beaches, which isn't very surprising. I think organising them in line with the Allied beaches gives the false impression that the German elements "lined up" with specific beaches, when they didn't. For example, the 1057th Grenadier Regt was deployed on the western side of the Cotentin Peninsula, and was more than 40km from Utah.Y It is not clear which citations relate to which parts of the ORBAT, eg some have a citation for sentence covering the division, but only one of the subordinate regiments has a citation.Y I recommend the ORBAT detail be spun off into a list article, but in the interim, tables would be helpful. At one point in the text, it states there was a strategic reserve, and at another that there was not. Clearly OKW did have a strategic reserve (1st SS Panzer Corps and the Panzer Lehr Division), 7th Army definitely had one (21st Panzer), Army Group B may or may not have had one, but I think it needs to be made more explicit who had what reserves, and the article certainly shouldn't contradict itself unless the sources are properly contrasted.Y Atlantic Wall Y - Not sure that this section is the place for it, but in the list of subordinate formations of Army Group B, XXXXVIIth Panzer Corps has been omitted. It included the 7th Army reserve, (21st Panzer Division), plus 2nd Panzer Division and 116th Panzer Division.Y Armoured reserves Y - suggest this list the divisions held as armoured reserves, as it is unclear which divisions each commander held control of (Hitler, Geyr and Rommel) Allied order of battle Y - a couple of queries You should point out somewhere that the whole landing force (including the US 1st Army) was under the operational control of 21st Army Group (Montgomery)Y The landing on Omaha was V Corps, not VII CorpsY Are you sure about the subordination of 6th Airborne to I Corps? I understood it was commanded directly by 21st Army GroupY Only some of the 79th was allocated in support of I Corps, eg the 1st Tank Brigade didn't land with themY Coordination with the French Resistance ? - use of the term État-major des Forces Françaises de l'Intérieur seems strange, probably needs a translation.Y Naval activity Y - this section contains information about air operations, which is counter-intuitive, suggest the air operations information be pulled out and placed in its own section, also suggest using bombing rather than bombardment, the latter generally is used to refer to naval bombardment The landings Y suggest you explain where Point du Hoc isY "In spite of the rough seas, two companies of the 741st Tank Battalion dropped their DD tanks" - doesn't make sense. the 741st didn't drop its own tanks, it was dropped (by the navy)Y
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	the lead section needs to be expanded to summarise the whole article IAW WP:LEAD. At present it makes no mention of casualties, the different experiences on the five beaches, etc.Y throughout, comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures, per MOS:NUMERAL Y
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	File:Royal Marine Commandos attached to 3rd Division move inland from Sword Beach on the Normandy coast, 6 June 1944. B5071.jpg - the caption should read "Royal Marine Commandos" not "Royal Marines Commandos"Y
	7. Overall assessment.	Listed, great job!

• Order of Battle: I have rearranged the material regarding the defenses on the Cotentin Peninsula using the map on p. 22 of Goldstein et al. If it will still be too confusing, perhaps I should remove the units that were not directly involved on D-Day itself. What's your opinion? I have removed the other units stationed further west on the Cotentin. Regarding the 914th Arty Regt, that was a typo, Ford & Zaloga states 352nd Artillery Regiment (p.63). I have added more citations as to where the data came from for all the units. Regarding who controlled which armoured reserve divisions (Hitler, Rommel, Geyr), none of the books I have available locally contain that information, but I will keep looking. I am willing to put the data in a table if you think that's necessary but looking over other orders of battle (Kursk, Juno Beach, and El Alamein are the ones I looked at) none of them seem to be in tables, so I am having trouble visualising how this would work out. Regarding the German divisional areas, I have reorganised the content; please see if this is better.Y
• Regarding who had control of what reserves, it's not covered in the sources I have here, and it's kinda a moot point anyway, as Hitler would have final approval regardless.Y
• Subordinate formations of Army Group B: I can't see where these were involved in D-Day itself, except for 21st Panzers. Added -- Diannaa (talk)

• Under operational control of 21st Army Group (Montgomery): This is mentioned right below the header "Allied order of battle".Y my mistake
• 6th Airborne Division: Ford & Zaloga shows them as part of British 1 Corps (p 200) and I can find nothing in the other source books that contradict this.Y
• Lead has been expanded; I will look it over again later and see what else needs doing. -- Diannaa (talk) 20:44, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

• I think the lead is okay now; please see if you agreee. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:43, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I agree, listed. Well done! Peacemaker67 (send... over) 01:25, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Thank you so much for a great review and for helping with this important project. Best, -- Diannaa (talk) 01:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)