Talk:Nissan Atlas

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at RV and at Commercial

'Manufacturing began in 1981 at Commercial and 1982 at RV'. What does RV and Commercial mean in this context? Are they model names, trim names, manufacturing plant names, city names or something different? Thanks. Stepho talk 09:06, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Atlas vs Caball vs Cabstar

The article says that Caball and Cabstar are variant names used in some regions. The text says the Caball was produced from 1970 to 1981 while the infobox says the Atlas was produced from 1982 to present. The Nissan Caball article seems to imply that the Cabstar is a different vehicle. Are the three names just different names applied to different regions (with some local content to satisfy local regulations) or are they different vehicles? Should the infobox say Atlas: 1970-present? How do the model numbers F22, C140/240/340 fit into this? Thanks. Stepho talk 09:06, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was looking at that just today, and not convinced of the relationship , which is why I left the Caball out of the intro paragraph. Also noted the inconsistency about the launch date. 1970, 1981 or 1982 according to different parts of the article. Warren (talk) 09:22, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These might be helpful: [1] and [2]. It looks like the A series Cabstar became the F series Cabstar which became the F series Atlas in Feb 1982. But to confuse things, the quite separate C series Caball became the H series Atlas in Dec 1981 (concurrent with the F series Atlas). The Homy and Homer names were also used inconsistently. To my mind, there should be two main articles" Cabstar (A and F series) and Caball (C and H series). A third, short article for the Atlas would simply say that the name was used on both the F series trucks (with a link to the Cabstar article) and also used on the H series trucks (with a link to the Caball article). The above files would be excellent references for all three articles. Stepho talk 09:58, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great links. I don't know about the proposed division - it seems that Atlas has been the Japanese market name for the last three generations of both the 1-1,5ton and 2-4ton series. Also, as a naming difference between the light and heavy-duty ranges I would recommend Atlas 20-series versus 40-series, as this has been a constant distinction of the chassis codes of the two ranges (C140, C240, C340, H40, H41, and H42 for the heavier Caball/Clipper/Atlas and A120, A220, A320, F20, F22, F23 for the lighter Cabstar/Homer/Atlas). The family tree is further confused by the Echo bus (based on the original Cabstar, with GC140 as a chassis code). Perhaps allowing for one article for the Atlas (both series, 1981-current), one for the Cabstar (including Cablight and Homer content, and mentioning current usage in many export markets), and one for the Caball (perhaps including the Clipper and Prince Cabover truck). But this is indeed a very tangled mess!

As a sidenote, I believe that the Homy is separate, just a renamed version of the Nissan Caravan available between January 1976 and June 1999. It did replace the van version of the Prince Homer in the marketplace, but nonetheless not really related to the Cabstar. As for the articles, I have some lovely references for the earlier vehicles, but the seventies and eighties are pretty murky. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 00:03, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have begun work on expanding the Nissan Caball article, which should help clarifying Nissan's crazy naming schemes. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 00:37, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, since the Atlas name has been used or so long, 'Nissan Atlas 20 series' and 'Nissan Atlas 40 series', or alternatively 'Nissan Atlas light' and 'Nissan Atlas heavy' (or some variation on these) sound like reasonable names. I'm happy to follow your proposal. Stepho talk 01:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a little more international info in the article which may support your suggestion to split into two articles... F20 Series and H40 Series may work better if you go down this route. Warren (talk) 14:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh lord - just realized that the Clipper badge is currently used on a rebadged Mitsubishi Minicab microvan/truck... I updated the Nissan Clipper page, incorporating Prince Clipper content and with profuse links to the Mitsubishi Minicab. I did a little bit of work here, next might be the Nissan Cabstar. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 19:10, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UD Condor

It would appear that the Nissan naming convention gets more convoluted, with the UD Condor (light duty) being similar the the H43 heavy duty Atlas... but completely different to the Condor (medium duty) - UD trucks website lineup page Warren (talk) 14:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ouf. I like what you have done to the page, a considerable improvement although obviously a lot remains to be done. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 17:55, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved per automobile naming conventions. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 22:41, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nissan Atlas → Nissan Cabstar – Per Commonname policy this name is the more common by far outside Japan, where English is not the locale. Google search results aren't everything but they give the most accurate representation possible that anyone can check easily without the possibility of bias or dispute.

English-only search of "Nissan Cabstar" - 538,000

English-only search of "Renault Maxity" - 47,860

English-only search of "Samsung SV110" - 833

Nissan Atlas would not qualify being the Japanese name. Please post opinions below Jenova20 08:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you miss out that the Google English-only search for "Nissan Atlas" returns 1,290,00 results? On that basis the article is correctly named already. --Biker Biker (talk) 09:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The Nissan Atlas (kana:日産・アトラス) is the name used in Japan for two lines of pickup trucks and light commercial vehicles"

It's not applicable if Japan is the only place that uses the name, no matter how many results because it would still be the wrong namesince Japan is not English speaking.

Thanks Jenova20 09:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your comments about Google search results however the result I obtained on an english only Google search results give:

"Nissan Cabstar" - 537,000 "Nissan Atlas" - 568,000 For some reason excluding "Wikipedia" from the search result (as suggested un der Commonname) actually increases the number of hits which suggests something seriously wrong with Google in that department! However on Google books the balance is very close - 107 Atlas and 85 for Cabstar, so I think this has to be down to consensus rather than statistics. I the UK I've only heard it called the Cabstar. Mighty Antar (talk) 13:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The automobile naming conventions are quite clear: The homemarket name will be used unless all English speaking export markets use the same name. The clearest example is Mazda3 rather than "Mazda Axela". But since the Atlas is called Cabstar in the UK and has been sold as the Caball in Australia and as a UD in both North America and South Africa, there is no clear export name. I don't know if the truck project has such guidelines, but I believe that the only way not to give undue precedence to the UK perspective is if the homemarket name remains, Google hits notwithstanding. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 13:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It was sold as the Cabstar in my home country (Australia) but the name changed so much depending on which market it was sold in. There is no single name that it is widely known by in English speaking markets, so therefore it should be known by its home country name (ie Atlas). As Mr Choppers said above, that was what WP:Automobiles decided quite a while ago and has been codified at Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles/Conventions#Titles (look for 'Daewoo Lacetti' as the perfect example). Stepho talk 13:50, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I read part of the article as suggesting that it was initially marketed in Oz as the "Caball". Might need rewriting if such was not the case. ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 19:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see.

It's an annoying rule that keeps a foreign name on a car when another is more than 10 times as popular than the other non-Japanese names combined.

Thanks Jenova20 16:23, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But Cabstar is not 10 times more "popular" than Atlas. Try searching for "Nissan Atlas" on english language (look under advanced search) sites on Google yourself and you'll see that if anything the opposite is true. Mighty Antar (talk) 17:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As the article states, Atlas is the Japanese name.

I never claimed Cabstar was mre popular than that, i said 10 times as popular than the other "non-Japanese names combined"

Atlas shouldn't be applicable since this is the English Wikipedia, not the Japanese one.

Jenova20 09:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned above, the rule is that for when there is no clear winner, the home market name is used. In this case it happens to be the Japanese name. The rule was put into place because we had some articles where there was no clear winner (a different name for each market) and there was constant bickering over which name was correct. We wasted a lot of time and effort arguing about it for no real gain. And redirects were used to pick up the other names anyway. That 'annoying rule' has allowed us to concentrate on improving the article instead of wasting time arguing about its title. Stepho talk 09:56, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.