Talk:Nina Hagen/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

I don't think Nina Hagen made the official song for the Expo 2000. First, Kraftwerk was making the official Expo-Hymn. Soon nobody liked their minimal jingle (they just said "Expo 2000" in different languages through a vocoder), so their work was ditched in favor of "Moments of Glory" by the Scorpions. It was really funny to follow this crazy changing of official music in Germany. --Drx 17:47, 2004 May 6 (UTC)

Whistle Register

She is said to be able to sing in the whistle register for hitting a G6. 67.181.94.96 11:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

That's the usual way for hitting G6. -- megA (talk) 13:17, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Well becoz a note is a G6 doesn´t automatically mean its a whistle Note,you can hit a G6 also with headvoice,which sound simular but its a different technic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.206.40 (talk) 20:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

There are a lot of song where she did whistle register notes: Herman Ist high, Herman's Door, Mama, Ich Bin Da Gar Nicht Pingelig, Smack Jack, etc Check out her C7 at the end of Herman's Door video! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.22.31.120 (talk) 12:02, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

General improvement needed

It would be neat if someone with knowledge could add some more info. For example, how and when did she learn to sing? Surely she must have had some professional training. AxH0L0tL 13:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

divadevotee has her hitting a f7 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.51.131 (talk) 21:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Birthname

If her father's surname was "Oliva", would that not be her surname at birth?? "Hagen" was her mother's maiden name. I hope the anonymous editor who keeps changing it will explain himself/herself on the matter. If I am wrong, I'm wrong, but explain yourself. MyBonnieliesovertheocean 22:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

According to IMDb's entry on Eva Maria Hagen, her birth surname was Buchholz, before marrying Hans Oliva. Another, less-reliable website bio (which names her father "Hans Hagen") states that her mother remarried after Hans's death, which might imply that that was when both mother and daughter's names changed to "Hagen". I'm having a hard time finding reliable sources for any of this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 22:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

According to German Wikipedia's article de:Hans Oliva-Hagen, her father's real name was Hans Hagen, but he used Hans Oliva as a pseudonym. And according to de:Eva-Maria Hagen, her mother's maiden name was Buchholz. —Angr 14:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Angr, Wikipedias of any language are not Wikipedia:reliable sources. I notice that neither de:WP article cites specific references for the information you mention, only several books for further general reading. (That's why footnotes with page numbers are so important.) I have a line of some works (probably German) that I hope to check out next time I hit the Library of Congress, but my reading German is an iffy proposition at best. It would be much better if someone who was fluent in German could find specific, cited evidence to answer this question. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Jeff, really. Angr is indeed fluent in German, and hardly needs lecturing about Wikipedia procedure. He was only pointing out to you what the German Wikipedia says; after all, not an unusual thing to do if your own German is "an iffy proposition at best". It's not like he inserted this into an article. While we're pointing out Wikipedia policies, have a look at WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 15:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It's perfectly true that Wikipedia articles shouldn't cite other Wikipedia articles, but then they shouldn't cite IMDB either (it's also not considered a reliable source). The German Wikipedia is notorious for never citing its sources for anything; their equivalent of the {{citation needed}} tag actually got deleted for being "useless". Nevertheless, in my experience German Wikipedia articles do almost always get their facts right, even if the author can't be bothered to tell you where they got their facts from. (They will often put a URL into the edit summary, of all places, forcing you to slog through the entire history to find the source of a fact you want to research.) —Angr 17:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Angr, I apologize if I sounded like I was lecturing. Your first reply sounded like something I often see, where inexperienced editors believe that WP articles are reliable sources. Not having worked with you before, I hadn't noticed you had the kind of experience to suggest this was not your intent. Thank you for your measured and useful response. I am still hoping we can get a professionally published source for the requested information. (I thought I had already implied that the IMDb citation was unsatisfactory, which is why I didn't include it in the article.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Farbfilm

"In East Germany, she performed with the band Automobil, becoming one of the country's best-known young stars. Her most famous song from the early part of her career was "Du hast den Farbfilm vergessen" (You forgot the Color Film) in 1974."

I can't change it, it's too funny. "Du hast den Farbfilm gegessen." ;-) Lecker! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.133.93.218 (talk) 00:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Aids Denialism

Could we get some citations/elaborations on her status as an AIDS dissedent? I've never heard of it 62.107.61.166 (talk) 14:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

She has written at least two songs with lyrics espousing AIDS reappraisal: "Handgrenade" and "So Bad". She has also conducted an interview with Peter Duesberg. I do not know whether she has since changed her mind, but she is still cited by dissidents as a champion of their cause. Trezatium (talk) 09:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Strangely, she performed at mainstream AIDS fundraising events in Vienna in 2004 and in 2006. Maybe she has indeed changed her mind. Trezatium (talk) 14:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Trying to make a case by examining her work smacks of unsourced synthesis, which is forbidden original research. What we would want is reliable press attention on this subject that we can cite in the article (if we find this topic worth mentioning as a significant aspect of Hagen's life). The "interview" cited above is an undated, unsourced webpage hosted by on an obscure website (Alexa rank about 2.6 million) for an activist organization — not the kind of unbiased source we'd normally consider reliable. That doesn't mean it's not true; it just means we need to do better in finding sources. But if we can't, we shouldn't try to press the point. To quote Wikipedia:Verifiability, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth" (emphasis in the original).

It should go without saying these days that you can't believe everything you read on the Internet. And one should always be skeptical of anything that activists (of any stripe) say, as it's painfully obvious that shouting one-sided arguments at the top of your lungs is a surprisingly effective way to make a point, regardless of its merits. Let's get hard facts from solid, neutral sources. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with much of what you say. The web site carrying the Duesberg interview doesn't count as a reliable source (many similar sites feature the same interview - I don't know where it was first published). Also you're right about the behaviour of activists - especially AIDS dissidents. Nevertheless the song lyrics are quite unambiguous and might be worth mentioning. I know almost nothing about Nina Hagen, but it seems to me that she may well be too obscure (at least in the English language media) for us to find useful references on this topic. Trezatium (talk) 19:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Subjects like Hagen who are much better known in another tongue are definitely more of a challenge for English-only speakers trying compose a comprehensive article about them. One acceptable avenue is to get sourced material written in the German article, get it translated, and add it here. (We should expect our German sister project to better know the details of Hagen's life.) We can cite the German sources, adding a {{de icon}} — (in German) — at the front of each reference element to flag the fact that they're in German. But we have to be even more wary of unreliable sources. It can be hard to sort that out when the sources are in our native tongue, and I'm sure de:WP also has its problems with people sometimes using any old webpage to "source" statements. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I've tried looking in the German Wikipedia but her biography there has nothing about HIV, while the AIDS dissident article mentions her name without a reference. I've also failed to find anything reliable through Google Deutschland. Perhaps someone who knows a bit of German could add a request for information to the talk page of Hagen's German Wikipedia article? Or maybe someone could search the archives of Die Welt? Otherwise we should probably leave this topic out of the article. Trezatium (talk) 12:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I've found an article in Newsweek confirming that she wrote a song supporting AIDS denialism. But I'm not sure if this is significant enough to mention. Trezatium (talk) 08:53, 2 July 2008 (UTC)