Talk:Nikola Mirotić

Nationality - suggest changing to "Spanish"

The quoted article indicates that Mirotic had to renounce his previous citizenship to obtain the Spanish one. So, he is Montenegro-born Spanish as opposed to Montenegrin-Spanish (bear in mind that in the USA and a few other places you can be call somebody Italian-American after three generations, and even then in an informal fashion -- Al Pacino is not really Italian; in other places you go by your formal nationality if you have only one).

Nationality and ethnicity

(moved)

Mate what are you trying to do with Nikola Mirotic article. You added three sources that are ONE SAME INTERVIEW of basketball coach Misa Lakic, then you added some sources that are not even close to be relevant. In none of them Mirotic called himself Serb. If you dont know basic rules at Wikipedia then you must read it. If you want to add some provocative edit you must have MULTIPLE RELIABLE SOURCES... and you dont have it. This one source is about milion times stronger then all sources you added... here Mirotic says that he is happy cause he is Montenegrin. So stop doing vandalism.--Bozalegenda (talk) 17:44, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@Bozalegenda: Citing same interview with multiple sources is the proof that the interview is not fake. Also, other sources in which Miša Lakić (not some Miša Lakić, but respected basketball expert) are relevant. There are at least three sources, and the edit is not "provocative" (maybe yours is, because you are removing referenced content without relevant explanation).

That page on kosarka.me does not interfere with this, because he is Montenegrin (nationality) and Serb (ethnicity); he is Montenegrin Serb. Please differentiate terms nationality and ethnicity.

Also, I don't see reason why would kosarka.me run by @nemanja.me be "about milion times" more relevant than national broadcaster RTCG website or mvp.rs website run by seven persons with known names and/or biographies, and pictures. --Obsuser (talk) 06:36, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

@Obsuser: My friend I think that you first must learn basic rules of wikipedia if you want to edit here. If you want to make some provocative edit and change someone nationality you must have MULTIPLE RELIABLE SOURCES where he (Mirotic) confirms himself that he is Serb. Since you dont have that sources, and there are many interviews where Mirotic confirms that he is proud to be Montegerin, your edit unfortunately can not be accepted.

Also there are rules about what are relevant sources. You can not add 4 sources that are ONE SAME THING (one same interview) just copied to another websites. Also as I can see you dont know anything about basketball if you sad that Miša Lakić is respected basketball expert. That person is three times banned for life from Serbian baketball federation.[1][2] Also during his career he had many lies, like that Sasa Pavlovic is not foreign in Serbia and have Serbian nationality, which was later denied cause Pavlovic have only Montenegrin papers. [3]

There was already discussion about this on Serbian wikipedia and we made decision. Also as I can see you are not basketball editor, so i just dont get it who you are and why do you want to vandalize this page. And also you don need to learn me what are nationality and ethnicity. I know very good what is that. So if you think that Mirotic is Serb please provide sources where he calls himself Serb. You can not call someone Serb if he ripped Serbian flag.[4]--Bozalegenda (talk) 14:26, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

What basic rules do you exactly refer to? I did not change nationality but insisted on not removing referenced content that was already in the article. Sources confirm that he is an ethnic Serb (he has not Serbian nationality, because he has not neither Serbian passport nor was he born in Serbia). Again, please differentiate terms nationality and ethnicity.

Can you cite some "WP:" guideline that says it is forbidden to cite multiple same source (in this case 2 not same but of same interview, not 4 same) sources? In the first source you cited it is written "ostavka Lakića", so he was not banned... In [5] there is nothing about Pavlović or Montenegrin papers...

On Serbian Wikipedia he is categorized among Serbs. It is not important who I am or that I am not "basketball editor"; it is important not to vandalize by removing sourced statements from articles. You don't differentiate nationality and ethnicity (you said If you want to [...] change someone nationality you must..., and I changed – actually kept – ethnicity, I did not change nationality). I know that he ripped Serbian flag; if you rip flag of Bosnia and Herzegovina, you can still be Bosniak, Serb or Roma... Read article about nationality so that you know what it means (maybe it is ambigous for you because on Balkans it is sometimes used as synonymous to ethnicity).

PS Admin on sr.wiki added that this player is Serb (categories); you tried to remove those cats and he explained to you why you are wrong. I saw that and wanted to make article stay correct also here on en.wiki...

Also, I see on your talk page that some other users warned you multiple times and last message is also about not differentiating ethnicity and nationality; so please don't push this into edit war, let's try to reach consensus here on talk page. As you want to remove sourced content, you have to explain why it should get removed; as you can see, I cited the player, Lakić and there is fundraiser – so there are three sources. Also, you have to understand that someone can be proud to be Serb and proud to be Montenegrin (as someone can be Croat and Bosnian and Herzegovinian etc.). --Obsuser (talk) 01:44, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Obsuser: Even if Zeljko Obradovic or Dusan Ivkovic said (and they not said that) that Mirotic is Serb, that cant be reliable. And especially not some minor league coach (Misa Lakic) who is three times banned from Serbian basketball federation... That person claimed at SOS channel (Zona pres, SOS kos) that Sasa Pavlovic have Serbian pappers which was not correct [6] so he is not person who can we believe. And as I said only if Mirotic calls himself a Serb, then you can add that he is ethnic Serb. And Mirotic calls himself a Montenegrin [7][8]

And yes you changed Mirotic nationality, he declare himself as a Montenegrin and you call him a Serb without a single source. So that is a VANDALISM. On Serbian wikipedia he is not categorized among Serbs (look better) so that is one more lie from you.--Bozalegenda (talk) 02:02, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

You did not citted a player. I citted a player, there are two sources where Mirotic confirms that he is happy and proud to be Montenegrin. You added 3 sources that are one same thing, interview of minor league basketball coach (Misa Lakic)... and thats not even close to be reliable. If Mirotic was called at some humanitarian action which is organized by Chicago Serbs that doesnt mean that he is Serb.--Bozalegenda (talk) 02:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Bozalegenda: I will not make fourth revert, in order not to break WP:3RR. Until some cooling of this article and you, could you please at least try to answer three of your fault statements:

1. Why do you think that if Mirotić calls himself a Montenegrin and is happy & proud to be Montenegrin (because he is Montenegrin) he cannot be Serb (of Montenegro/Spain)?
2. Why do you think that I did not cite player and why are you trying to neglect sources I added (his interview on sport.blic.rs and RTS) in which he states that he likes to be with his people ([ethnic] Serbs) and was on fundraiser "Serbs for Serbs" (if he was on this event, he is Serb, because it is organized by "Serbs for Serbs" organization)?
3. Why do you still think that I am "changing his nationality" even if I only insisted on keeping already present statement on his etnicity that was referened and I referenced it some more?

PS Basketball League of Serbia is not minor league as you said (professional basketball club owned by Lakić, KK Beovuk 72, is in this league). --Obsuser (talk) 02:33, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Obsuser: Ok let's see your sources:

1. This three sources [9], [10][11] are one same thing just copied to another websites. This is not even close to be relevant... This was said by Misa Lakic a minor league coach, who is banned for life from Serbian federation. So this is not reliable.
2. This two sources [12][13] also a same thing, just copied to another websites. Blic is reliable, and sansasport not. Even here Mirotic did not call himself a Serb.
3. Third source [14] A yotube video, where Mirotic was called to suport humanitarian action which was organized by Chicago Serbs. So just because he was on some charity evening you call him a Serb??? Well guess what all people from Balkan are hang out in USA, Australia, Europe or everwvere beyond the Balkan. And even here Mirotic did not call himself a Serb.

So your sources are not reliable. In my sources Mirotic call himself a Montenegrin[15][16].--Bozalegenda (talk) 02:37, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

PS In that moment when Misa Lakic gave an interview Beovuk played in second or third division, so yes he was a MINOR league coach then.--Bozalegenda (talk) 02:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Bozalegenda: Again:

1. Why do you think that if Mirotić "in your sources" calls himself a Montenegrin and is happy & proud to be Montenegrin (because he is Montenegrin) he cannot be Serb (of Montenegro/Spain)?
2. Why do you think that I did not cite player and why are you trying to neglect sources I added (his interview on sport.blic.rs and RTS) in which he states that he likes to be with his people ([ethnic] Serbs) and was on fundraiser "Serbs for Serbs" (if he was on this event, he is Serb, because it is organized by "Serbs for Serbs" organization, this is not some fundraiser but "Serbs for Serbs")?
3. Why do you still think that I am "changing his nationality" even if I only insisted on keeping already present statement on his etnicity that was referened and I referenced it some more?

PS Basketball League of Serbia is not minor league as you said twice (professional basketball club owned by Lakić, KK Beovuk 72, is in this league; that does not mean anything if he was owner of minor backetball club; he improved over years, what is good sign). --Obsuser (talk) 02:44, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

PPS In your first source, he said "Srećan sam što sam Crnogorac i što na pravi način predstavljam zemlju." so he meant on nationality. In second one same thing: "Ja sam uvijek govorio da se ponosim time što sam Crnogorac i da uvijek svoju zemlju reprezentujem na pravi način.". He talks about being adherent to Montenegro, not about being ethnic Montenegrin or being / not being ethnic Serb (in the source I cited and you said is reliable [blic.rs] he talks about hanging with his people, and people [narod] refers to ethnic – not national). --Obsuser (talk) 02:48, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Obsuser: Let me answer you:

1. Yes he can be a Serb even if he is Montenegrin, but then you must provide a MULTIPLE reliable sources, where he (Mirotic) confirms for himself that is a Serb. Since you dont have that source then here is everything clear.
2. You added 6 source, and 5 of them are not even close to be relevant. I explained you many times this. Misa Lakic is not reliable, and going on some charity basketball 3x3 tournament will not make him a Serb. The only source here you have is source on blic.rs but even there Mirotic did not call himself a Serb. Peope from Balkan who are living in USA, Australia or western Europe are all hang out because of the same language, so that interview where he stated that ″he likes to be with his people″ doesnt mean anything.
3. Yes you are chaning his nationality. There are sources where he consider himself Montenegrin, and Montenegrins are ethnic group in Montenegro..

And I dont know how many times should I exlpain you about Misa Lakic. He is three times banned for life from Serbian basketball federation. And when he give that interview about Mirotic KK Beovuk was playing in second or third divison, so yes he was a MINOR league basketball coach then. KK Beovuk plays in Basketball League of Serbia from 2016, and that interview with him is from february 2015.--Bozalegenda (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

I provided multiple reliable sources, and it is not true that one must provide multiple reliable sources specifically for this (ethnicity or this article). You did not point to any guideline in which this was written, even if I asked multiple times for this.

It's not true that 5 of them are not even close to be relevant (as I said, kosarka.me run by @nemanja.me is not "about milion times" more relevant than national broadcaster RTCG website or mvp.rs website run by seven persons with known names and/or biographies, and pictures, so your source kosarka.me is maybe unreliable).

There is no reason to consider every Lakić's statement false if he left SBF (he was not banned but left himself, at least according to the source you provided yourself above) or if his club was playing in second division (these are not valid arguments to call someone irrelevant becase he improved and Beovuk plays currently in first league). Difference is only about one year, so he couldn't change himself for 180° degrees – be scammer and after one year or so inject somehow his club into first leauge, it's not possible; also, we see that he got member of SBF again).

It is not "some charity basketball 3x3 tournament" making him Serb but fundraiser organized by "Serbs for Serbs".

It is also false conclusion that interview in which he stated that he liked to be with his people doesn't mean anything because people (narod) are almost always used as synonym for ethnic group by Balkan people and in politics of Balkan countries (in history it was even used officially but today is sometimes replaced with incorrect term nationality even when referring to ethnicity; censuses are proof).

No, I'm not changing his nationality because your interview, as I said, implicates that he considers himself national and not ethnic Montenegrin (btw, to be clear: Montenegrins can be considered both as nation and ethnic group; in this case former applies). He said "Srećan sam što sam Crnogorac i što na pravi način predstavljam zemlju." so he meant on nationality. In second source same thing: "Ja sam uvijek govorio da se ponosim time što sam Crnogorac i da uvijek svoju zemlju reprezentujem na pravi način.". He talks about country (zemlja) – about being adherent to Montenegro, not about being ethnic Montenegrin or being / not being ethnic Serb.

I've explained again about Lakić above in this comment so your attemps to refute this all failed... --Obsuser (talk) 12:00, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I explained you so many times. Provide a source where he (Mirotic) call himself a Serb, and there will be no problem. Misa Lakic is not relevant, i explained you about 100 times, so stop adding that as a source. Even Zeljko Obradovic, Dusan Ivkovic, Svetislav Pesic and all best Serbian coaches could not be reliable for this case, and especially not some minor legue coach who was banned for life from Serbian basketball federation.--Bozalegenda (talk) 19:50, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

And all this was discussed on Serbian wiki a long time ago, and we agreed that this sources are not even close to be relevant. So stop making vandalism here, and leave basketball articles alone.--Bozalegenda (talk) 01:33, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

We are going in cycle; I don't want to repeat myself. You removed referenced content without a valid ratio; see my previous comment above for explanation why you are not right. --Obsuser (talk) 04:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I dont know how many times should I explain to you. You must have multiple relevant sources where he (Mirotic) call himself a Serb.--Bozalegenda (talk) 13:26, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

There are three relevant sources, as explained above. Please stop reverting. --Obsuser (talk) 17:32, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

I already explained to you, those refs are not valid. Misa Lakic is not relialbe... you must have sources where HE (MIROTIC) call himself a Serb.--Bozalegenda (talk) 20:52, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Name

The entry says that the name follows Spanish naming customs, but this is not accurate; Nikola Mirotić is from Montenegro (former Yugoslavia) and so is his name. It is not Spanish. I don't know what's the naming customs in Montenegrin, someone can help here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.157.145.255 (talk) 09:34, 18 October 2017 (UTC)