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Archive 1

earlier comment

Do we really need all of those information at the bottom of the page? I'm cleaning them up--Vircabutar 08:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Royal Brunei to be deleted from airlines who provide services to Bali

Royal Brunei isn't providing services to Bali since 2008. see http://www.bruneiair.com/ for cities they provide services to.

OK chaps, let's cool this down

I've noticed that there appears to be an edit war going on. I've issued warnings to both parties involved, and requested that they discuss the problem on this talk page. I'm hoping that they will do so, but am putting on record here that further warring without discussion will lead to a block. Mjroots (talk) 17:22, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

The "edit war" is not confined to this article. 124x247x221x146 also started visiting other pages I have edited and doing blanket reverting edits and large deletes. There was an issue in that I was unaware of WP:Airports policy, namely on code sharing in the destination tables. I added code sharing info to the Selaparang Airport article. That airport is 25 mins or so from Ngurah Rai International Airport and that was the reason I paid it some attention to see if the other end of Ami-DPS correctly indicated the return flights. It did not and the rest of the airline and destination table was also inacurate, out of date and misleading. That issue is discussed on Selaparang Talk page. Similarly 124x247x221x146 deleted the entire Destinations section of the Lombok International Airport article. The airport has not yet opened and the destinations were described as per current Selaparang airport operations. As Selaparang is closing down when LIA opens then it is clear that these will be the new airports destinations. The table was adequately described as destinations of the current operating airport and it would be difficult for anyone to imagine the contents of the table was other than that described. Clearly it was a list of the operations that would move across to the airport when it opened. It is a matter of public recorded that the operations are moving across and that is sufficiently sourced in that article. I think this person possibly edits before he reads. 124x247x221x146 has further vandalised the Selaparang Airport article by completely removing the Terminal column of the table and deleting the Wings Air entries. I have since re-edited that article restoring the Wings entry and the terminals then he has gone back and deleted wings again this time making a new entry of Lion operated by Wings. Yet wings operate separately, maybe he has still not got it.
This same editor also seems to have some sort of issue with Wings Abadi airlines and keeps on reverting the correct destination information on both Ngurah Rai International and Selaparang Airport articles and deletes the AMI-DPS-AMI route which is clearly operated by Wings Abadi, with Wings registered aircraft, crews aircraft colours and tail, Wings registration and callsign. I think there are even recent photos on the web showing the aircraft with WINGS written all over them parked at Selaparang. Indeed if he followed a few of the links and looked at the sources he is so keen to delete he might be better informed. On his edit on Selaparang he deleted the airline entirely. That appears to confirm he is editing to vandlaise as he had apparently also been removing the Wings AMI destination information on Ngurah Rai International Airport article despite my previous protests.
It seems there is a lack of suitable sincerity available to this editor in regard to article accuracy and content, more so he seems interested in gaining "control' of an article. I think that maybe somewhat somewhat contrary to WP aims and philosophies. To carefully check destinations and route operators is a time consuming task, to have someone come along and replace the content with clearly and purposefully inaccurate information is far from pleasurable. Indeed I consider it to be antagonistic in both intent and outcome. When I came to this article I noted that of the five connections listed to nearby Lombok 2 were quite erroneous and 4 were completely missing. In other words of the 7 current operators only 3 were even mentioned. Similar levels of error were found throughout the table in many other listings. Now 6 of the 7 DPS-AMI operations are listed as 124x247x221x146 keeps on deleting Wings air information from the table. In the Selaparang article not happy with deleting the routes he deleted the whole airline.
As to the rest of the table's detail:
  • Aeroflot, earlier deletes by 124x247x221x146 removed the detail advising that operations were starting services in late 2010 ("Summer of 2010/2011") so that it appeared as though there are current services when in fact there are not, then later placed an unsourced "resumes date 9 november" but with no year and no source.
  • AirAsia (AZ) does not operate Penang - Bali. When I take it out 124x247x221x146 puts it back in again. AirAsia do not list that route.
  • AirAsia operates (AZ) Malaysia AirAsia - Kuala Lumpur but also (QZ)- Indonesia AirAsia on domestic and limited International including joint operations to Malaysia and (FD) - Thai AirAsia to Thailand. As AirAsia should really only include the actual destinations for that airline I put a note in the filed advising of both QZ and FD so that they could be looked for in the airline list. Again deleted.
  • Batavia Air, the destinations Kupang, Labuanbajo, and Maumere, again 124x247x221x146 wants to keep on deleting them, maybe he needs to check this with Batavia, they think otherwise and are operating aircraft on that route.
  • Batavia, 124x247x221x146 deleted Perth and the article source that I had added to it for clarity, previously it was showing as a current operation. It is not. A different editor challenged the source I had added to this existing entry claiming it was not written in English, however the source is in the English language, I assume they only looked at the domain address rather than the actual page, just lazy I guess.
  • Indonesia AirAsia, does not operate DPS- Bangkok-Suvarnabhumi but Thai AirAsia (FD) does. Again, all that is needed is to go check the AirAsia website.
  • Japan airlines 124x247x221x146 changes " JAL DPS services end October 1, 2010" my edit hotlinked to the JAL source page but it was replaced with an unsourced version "Osaka-Kansai [ends 1 October], Tokyo-Narita [ends October 1]" frankly I think that is just more deconstruction and again removes a sourced edit and replaces it with a non-sourced.
  • KLM 124x247x221x146 removed the Malaysian alrlines operated KUL-DPS flight. Again someone had better contact the airline, they might like to know they are not doing the route any more so they can stop selling the tickets.
  • Lion Air 124x247x221x146, has repeatedly removed Jogyakarta (Yogyakarta), Manado, Ujung Pandang from their destinations, also removed the note that DPS-AMI is operated by Wings Air
  • Malaysian Airlines, 124x247x221x146 likes to delete that some of their flights are operated by GA
  • Merpati, 124x247x221x146 seems to have different ideas to Merpati as to where they fly , including Dili which they are not currently servicing, again just keeps on changing it back again. If he wants to fly from Dili to Denpasar on Merpati I hope he doesn't mind a long wait. Same with Merauke and Waikabubak, either of those two airports are going offer a nice long wait in the departure lounge as Merpati do not operate the route. Strangely though this editor insists on deleting routes that Merpati do list and do quote ticket prices ...
  • Pelita, only seem to be doing unrelated charter ops but 124x247x221x146 thinks that Ende, Kupang, Labuan Bajo, Waingapu have to be listed to them even when I describe them as Charter (no current scheduled destinations). The obvious question here is do the airline claim to operate these routes, do the flights get listed as arriving or departing? I know the answer, that's why I keep on re-editing the detail back to show Charter (no current scheduled destinations) They just aren't doing it anymore!!!.
  • Travira Air, Benete/Sumbawa again they are not operating but 124x247x221x146 keeps on putting them back in
  • TransNusa, they think they are operating to Ende, Kupang, Labuanbajo, Ruteng, Sumbawa, Tambolaka but 124x247x221x146 thinks they are only operating to Bima, Mataram so just keeps on deleting the rest. I hope he lets them know soon.
  • Wings Air, no they don't just fly to Surabaya and Yogyakarta they also fly to Mataram and Maumere and Bima, or at least they did today anyhow, probably around same time that 124x247x221x146 was repeat deleting that information from my edits to the article. Don't worry though 124x247x221x146 if you missed it, they are scheduled services, although I do note that Labuhanbajo was scheduled today but did not operate. Also I am not convinced that Wings fly DPS-Yogyakarta but that is only because I have seen no evidence of it, accordingly it remains in the table and any time I might have spent getting to the bottom of that has now been spent dealing with someone who performs block deletes on someone else's work with out even bothering to check their actions are useful in any sense. Lion operate the DPS-Yogyakarta route with 737-900ER services but they may run Wings MD's on it as well like they do with AMI-SUB.
124x247x221x146 seems to lean toward belligerency and a lack of genuine constructive intent. Instead of checking sources he deletes not only the content but the sources as well. Apparently he sees no need to check his accuracy or any sources prior to making an edit. I note on his user page he presents himself with an awe of WP authoity and refers to himself in the plural so I similarly assume he knows wht he is doing, I think it may be called "vandalism" but maybe he would be a greater authority on that. I also wonder if he could identify one of these aircraft if it crashed into his head. For heavens sake [124x247x221x146 just look at the airlines websites, if that is too confusing look at the arrivals info on the airport websites. You might find it quite informing. The links are in the article, you must have missed it, maybe that was from one my edits you forgot to delete. Frankly I just think you are trying to draw attention to yourself. Are you sure WP is the best place for this?
BTY 124x247x221x146 I strongly object to your turning information from readily available and article referenced sources into a matter of disputation by attempting to steer information pertaining to published and readily accessible airline routes and operators into a realm of controversial article content. These are just plain easy to read facts. Go check them before you edit. As for your comment about not needing to list all the "flights" I think you miss the point, that is the idea of the table, destinations and operators. Not just the ones you like but all of them, objectively and accurately listed as best as possible. When you lecture another editor by way of edit notes please don't refer to yourself in the plural context "we". Unless you are the queen of england that just looks silly and I doubt you will have much consensus with other WP editors in your replacement of material sourced from the airline operators and the airport authorities with material apparently based upon nonsense and conjecture.
Below is my current version of the table containing the supposedly contentious material that 124x247x221x146 is so keen on deleting. I suggest that it should replace the most recent edit by [124x247x221x146]] as his edit is riddled with errors. I do not claim this one below is perfect but at least is is reasonably accurate, if any other editors can further improve on it further that would surely be beneficial. The current destination table in this article is riddled with inaccuracies however in the interests of calm I will not upload this table rather I will leave the errors sitting in the article as unless 124x247x221x146 is blocked he will surely revert again:

Felix505 (talk) 05:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

'Please note: Table mentioned above has been removed to reduce page clutter as a more recent version was uploaded for Page protected edit approval on 27 sept, please see below. To access the table previously displayed here go to the edit histories and recall the page version prior to this date stamp.Felix505 (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


Links to check airline sources:

Airlines URL for Airline
Aeroflot Aeroflot
AirAsia AirAsia
Asiana Asiana
Indonesia Air Transport -Indonesia Air Transport
Batavia Air Batavia Air
Garuda Indonesia Garuda
China Eastern China Eastern
Citilink operated by Garuda Indonesia Citilink
Hong Kong Express Airways Hong Kong Express Airways]
Indonesia Air Asia Indonesia Air Asia
JAL JAL The Jal flight schedule showing end of service
Jetstar Airways Jetstar
Jetstar Asia Jetstar Asia
KLM KLM
Korean Air Korean Air
Lion Air Lion Air
Malaysia Airlines Malaysian Airlines
Mandala Airlines Mandala Airlines
Merpati Nusantara Airlines Merpati Airlines
Pelita Air Service Pelita
Qatar Airways Qatar Airways
Shanghai Airlines Shanghai Airlines
Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines
Silk Air Silk Air
Sriwijaya Air Sriwijaya Air
Strategic Airlines Strategic Strategic Air
Thai AirAsia Thai AirAsia
Thai Airways International Thai Airlines
TransNusa Transnusa
Travira Air Travira Air
Trigana Air Trigana
Virgin Blue Virgin Blue
ValuAir Jetstar Asia Valuair Jetstar VF
Wings Air Wings Abadi Air per Lion Air

Felix505 (talk) 05:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


Table & Table Content

Please ensure that the formatting, structure and content of the table is consistent with the WP standard. There appears to be no valid reason to create a new personal preference or to deviate from the norm. 124x247x221x146 (talk) 08:12, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Response to [User:124x247x221x146|124x247x221x146]] (talk)

124x247x221x146 (talk), I have already referred you right back to [Wikipedia:WikiProject Airports/page content]] and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Airports) on several occasions in response to your previous commentary. The last time I did that was on your (talk) page when I refered you to my response to another of you posts there. In that response I again drew your attention to this. You have since removed that notice from your (talk) page.
Please also follow reasonable standards of WP editing conduct, do not delete the content edited by others without a good reason. You have no reason to delete content in this way. It is destructive and contrary to the benefit of the article and aside from anything else is just incredibly rude and arrogant. That you want to control the article is abundantly clear. Are you sure you are in the right place. Maybe there are better places for you to do this sort of thing.
It seems apparent that your current User:124x247x221x146 (talk) is a rebirth of blocked User:124.247.221.146 (talk).
Here are your user histories:Contributions of User 124x247x221x146, also Contributions of User 124.247.221.146. I see the same sort of thing happening throughout. Maybe they will help jog your memory.
I notice that you have also removed the message to you on your talk page posted by never stop flying (talk) 18:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia policy regarding airline and airport articles says that "you're in no way obliged to follow all, or even any, of these guidelines to contribute an article".
  • 124x247x221x146 (talk), please follow: Wikipedia:WikiProject Airports/page content and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Airports). Please try and edit in good faith. You are not editing in good faith when you block delete content of other editors.
  • I have looked at your history logs for your current User name and that of one of your previous User names 124.247.221.146 (talk) and it is clear you have a history of this sort of reckless, belligerent and destructive editing. You clearly have personal issues over some arcane details of Table template mark-up, that is your prerogative but please try and keep it in control.
  • Your are free to edit the mark up of any part of the article as long as you stay within WP:Airport guidelines I am sure you will not be challenged, not by me and probably not by others, just go for it but for heavens sake try and behave like a grown up person and stop deleting content updates just because you want to win an edit war, and while on that maybe it would be productive if you stopped edit warring, it is unpleasant and really quite counter productive.
  • If existing table mark-up offends you and if you are complying with WP guidelines it would be difficult to object to you doing that. However that is not what is going on here.
  • You are clearly battling to 'control' a page to the exclusion of constructive and legitimate editing by others that has been fully researched and adequately sourced.
  • Indeed you seem to have a fondness even for the deletion of sources and -refs- as well as content.
  • You have now indicated clearly with your last few edits that you are excluding legitimate edits regardless of content, and regardless of mark up issues.
  • If you wish to have total control over an article I suggest you approach and administrator and seek to have the page locked so that only you can enter it. Alternatively create your own personal article in your in your User space. I am sure no one will ever interfere with you there.
  • So in light of your clear intent to act other than in Good Faith and whilst suitably informed with volumes of abundant commentary to that effect I will accordingly seek to have you blocked.It seems you cannot understand that an encyclopaedic endeavour is about accurate, researched and verifiable information. You are apparently unable to grasp that as you are obsessed with a small detail of a table mark up guideline. You have had many opportunities to just edit the mark-up but you apparently want to just delete content.
I am now seeking to have your reckless activities blocked, maybe that will assist with clarity, frankly I think it would be best if it were a permanent block (again?).Felix505 (talk) 10:31, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Page protected

Please note that the page has been protected due to edit warring over the content, users need to come to some consensus on content before the block is lifted. While the page is protected requests for edits can be made on this page using the Template:editprotected template. MilborneOne (talk) 13:19, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request to protected article - Destination table section and External links section

{{Edit protected}}

Destination Table

AirlinesDestinationsTerminal
AirAsia Kuala Lumpur Note 1 International
Batavia Air Balikpapan, Ende, Jakarta, Kupang, Labuanbajo, Maumere, Surabaya, Waingapu Domestic
Cathay PacificHong Kong International
China AirlinesKaohsiung [seasonal], Taipei-Taoyuan International
China Eastern Airlines Shanghai-Pudong International
Citilink
operated by Garuda Indonesia		Jakarta Domestic
EVA AirTaipei-Taoyuan International
Garuda Indonesia Jakarta, Mataram, Surabaya, Ujung Pandang (Makassar), Yogyakarta Domestic
Garuda IndonesiaHong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Melbourne, Nagoya-Centair, Osaka-Kansai, Perth, Seoul-Incheon, Shanghai-Pudong, Singapore, Sydney, Tokyo-Narita International
Hong Kong Express AirwaysHong Kong International
Indonesia AirAsiaBandung, Jakarta Domestic
Indonesia AirAsiaKuala Lumpur, Perth, Singapore International
IAT (Indonesia Air Transport)Mataram, Labuan Bajo Domestic
Jetstar AirwaysBrisbane, Darwin, Melbourne, Perth, Sydney International
Jetstar Asia operated by ValuairSingapore International
KLM Amsterdam, Singapore, Note 1 Kuala Lumpur Note 2 International
Korean AirSeoul-Incheon International
Lion Air Jakarta, Jogyakarta (Yogyakarta), Menado, Ujung Pandang (Makassar), Surabaya Domestic
Malaysian AirlinesKuala Lumpur International
Mandala AirlinesJakarta Soekarno-Hatta, Surabaya, Yogyakarta Domestic
Merpati Nusantara AirlinesBandung, Bima, Ende. Jakarta, Kupang, Lauanbajo, Mataram, Maumere, Surabaya, Tambolaka, Waingapu Domestic
Merpati Nusantara AirlinesDili Note 3 International
Qatar AirwaysDoha, Singapore International
Shanghai AirlinesShanghai-Pudong International
Shenzhen AirlinesGuangzhou International
Singapore AirlinesSingapore International
Skywest Broome [seasonal], Port Hedland International
Sriwijaya Air Jakarta Domestic
Strategic AirlinesBrisbane, Perth, Port Hedland, Townsville [begins 3 Dec][1]International
Thai AirAsiaBangkok-Suvarnabhumi International
Thai Airways InternationalBangkok-Suvarnabhumi International
TransaeroMoscow-Domodevo International
TransNusaBima, Ende, Kupang, Labuanbajo, Mataram, Ruteng, Sumbawa, Tambolaka Domestic
Trigana AirMataram Domestic
Uni AirKaohsiung International
Virgin Blue operated by Pacific BlueAdelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth, Sydney International
Wings AirBima, Kupang, Labuhanbajo, Mataram, Maumere, Semarang, Surabaya, Tambolaka Note 6 Domestic

Notes
  • ^1 AirAsia services from DPS are provided by (AK)-AirAsia, (QZ)-Indonesia AirAsia and (FD)-Thai AirAsia
  • ^2 KLM services to Amsterdam via Singapore may be operated by Singapore Airlines or Garuda on the Denpasar to Singapore sector
  • ^3 KLM services to Amsterdam via Kuala Lumpur may be operated by Garuda or Malaysian Airlines on the Denpasar to Kuala Lumpur sector.
  • ^4 Merpati services to Dili are not listed as available on the Merpati web booking system. Bookings and enquiries must be made either direct to Merpati or per a recognised travel agent.
  • ^5 All Wings Air flights also carry Lion Air flight numbers and may be booked online per Lion Air

Felix505 (talk) 20:49, 27 September 2010 (UTC)Felix505 (talk) 04:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC) edit to table (notes):

  • changed Aeroflot -ref- formatting (to follow [MilborneOne]), then blinded as start date not specific ("northern winter" start)
  • removed JAL as last service sched to arrive in JP on 1 oct (listing no longer required)
  • changed Strategic -ref- formatting (to follow [MilborneOne])

Felix505 (talk) 14:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

  • removed Valuair leaving the SIN flight described as Jetstar operated by Valuair (Valuair edit performed by User:Sb617 on 2 Oct)

Apologies I re-lit the Edit protected template yesterday but did not note it here..so I am now. This table really should be uploaded to the article, this condition of misinformation is prevailing for far too long. Felix505 (talk) 10:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

As there have been no further comments, I have made the requested change. I have also lowered the protection - I suspect the protecting admin did not mean to protect it forever. By the way I think those notes should probably be done with footnotes. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Martin I have left a note on your talk page re the table contents(Garuda/Citilink and Wings/Lion and re your comment on the notes. If I do not hear back from you I will upload as is in a few hours. Felix505 (talk) 07:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

See Aeroflot update below in Aeroflot notes. Felix505 (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

As to who is operating what and to where in regard to Garuda services this web page is quite informing as to who is operating GA services and which sevices GA is operating for others. No mention of Citilink though.Felix505 (talk) 09:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons has media related to Ngurah Rai Airport.

Felix505 (talk) 20:49, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


Below this line are edit notes, no edit content after this line

I propose that the Destinations table and External Links Sections in the Ngurah Rai International Airport article are edited to reflect the content as per above.

Notes:

  • Destinations table as per list below

Aeroflot, this editor cannot find DPS described either as Denpasar or Bali in Aeroflot booking system departing any moscow airport code. Aeroflot bookings system, or in the Online schedule Aeroflot timetable/search. Tried an Aeroflot booking with any date in November or December but DPS is not appearing in the destination/origin list. DPS is not is not in the Aeroflot route map or services descriptions. I would comment that if there is no flight number and no destination and you can't buy a ticket and there is no date then best stick with the info supplied by Aeroflot. Maybe 124x247x221x146 has a citable source but he is keeping it to himself. He stated in an edit summary that he could access a first flight on 10 dec 2010. However he has not provided this source despite prompting. Aeroflot has been in a bit of turmoil lately and my understanding from Aeroflot press releases and media information that they have been postponing a return to Indonesia due to their recent internal issues but maybe that also means they are not ready for DPS services yet and this is why they state "winter of 2010-2011" I think they are using this as a vague timing reference. They have stated that regular services are planned possibly with a Garuda code share and the last leg SIN-DPS operated by Garuda. More likely they are just being vague due to their recent turmoil, not seasonal. I think we should link to their announcement or delete the listing. Maybe MilborneOne or Mjroots might like to make a call on that.

  • Please note, controversial edit, the date and source link has been deleted several times by 124x247x221x146. I understand he now feels it is "seasonal service" and commences 10 November, he also disagrees with providing source ref. I have not found any evidence that they have any intentions to operate on a "seasonal basis".
  • Removed Aeroflot as we dont normally list new services without a start date. If any body has a reference for a start date then it can be added again. MilborneOne (talk) 20:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Checked Aeroflot again today regarding a commencement of services date. The previous press release remains and there is none on DPS subsequent to "commencement in northern hemisphere spring" - MOV,SVO-DPS.
      DPS now appearing in booking system destination list (not there when checked recently) but tried booking nov 2011 thru june 2011 with out success. DPS not listed in their schedules page destinations list.Felix505 (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

AirAsia It seems 124x247x221x146 finally had a look at the AirAsia website and decided that my destinations (remove Penang) edit was in fact correct and he offered an AirAsia schedule page as a source so the destinations as described for AirAsia, Indonesian Air Asia and Thai AirAsia are thankfully no longer controversial in regard to the destinations detail as 124xxx eventually took it out again. AirAsia services to DPS are provided by (AK)-AirAsia, (QZ)-Indonesia AirAsia and (FD)-Thai AirAsia. This confuses a lot of people as QZ and FD are listed separately in the destinations table. I added this note to the feild; "Kuala Lumpur see also (QZ)-Indonesia AirAsia and (FD)-Thai AirAsia" in a the destination field. I will now move it to under the table as a WP:note instead.

  • Controversial edit, remains problematic as 124x247x221x146 reverts edits with this detail, describing QZ and FD. Hard to know if he disagrees with the content or the markup, probably both. I have changed the formatting to present this as WP: note in the hope that this makes people happier. I note that style has been used on other major airport articles.

Batavia International. When I first started editing the article Batavia was listed as providing a Perth service, and it had a separate entry (International). I checked their website and could find no such destination, they do not list DPS. I was considering deleting the destination but when I found a reasonable source to reference I decided to leave it in the table but qualify it with a commencement date note and a link to source. The provided source in the table is not Batavia so we should remain a little wary of the listing I think, however Batavia are actively purchasing aircraft and they are in a program of expanding to other routes, so it is quite possible. If there are any 'in good standing' editors who think it better to delete the Batavia Perth listing then I would not disagree, maybe MilborneOne or Mjroots might like to make a call on that.

  • Controversial edit, I recall that 124x247x221x146 was removing the commence date and source giving the appearance Batavia Perth is a current scheduled flight. He removed the "Services commencing Dec 2010 several times" He also had support from another editor who also deleted the source on the basis it was written in Indonesian language, however It is actually written in English. I also note that 124x247x221x146 later completely deleted Batavia Perth from the table.
    Again maybe MilborneOne or Mjroots might like to make a call on listing Batavia Perth.

Batavia Domestic. Balikpapan (Y6 658) listed but N/A, Ende (Y6-077) operating, ,Jakarta (Y6 742) operating, Kupang (Y6 755) operating, Labuanbajo (Y6-071) operating, Maumere (Y6-575) (Y6-073), Surabaya (Y6-756) operating, Waingapu (Y6-755) (Y6-075) operating

  • Controversial edit. The destinations of Balikpapan, Ende, Kupang, Maumere, Waingapu are apparently disputed by 124x247x221x146. Batavia are accepting bookings for those destinations on their website and the flights are arr and dep the airport.

Citilink operated by Garuda Indonesia. Citilink describe their operation as :Citilink operated by Garuda" They even state it on their main webpage, top left under the image of the smiling crew members "Citilink operated by Garuda Indonesia"

  • Controversial edit 124x247x221x146 repeat reverts edits to Garuda operated by Citilink so I guess he disagrees with both citilink, and garuda not just with me.
  • Its just a matter of wording the flights are operated by Citilink aircraft using Garuda callsigns so Garuda operated by Citilink is correct for a destination table. The comment Citilink operated by Garuda comment is just to qualify the airline is a Garuda operation on the webpage what is important is which aircraft and which flight numbers. MilborneOne (talk) 20:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Are you sure about this [MilborneOne], the aircraft are all registered to GA. [1] The crews are Citilink, the aircraft operate with a GA flight number (DPS-CGK is GA081). That flight number is unique to Citilink (there is no other GA flight carrying that number). Citilink is a fully owned LCC division of GA.[2] Garuda Citilink use GA's callsign (Indonesia). So I was thinking this is operated by Garuda as advertised as the aircraft are registered to GA and the airline is a fully owned subsidiary division of GA. As far as I can tell the flight crew and cabin crew are may be employed separately to Garuda flight crew. So is it the flight crew that are the distinction and cabin crew? If not then as it is a service operated in a GA aircraft, registered to GA on the national aviation register, the flight number is GA and the callsign is GA and it is advertised as operated by GA then I though it should be described as Citilink, operated by Garuda. However the Aircraft carry Citilink Garuda Airlines titles rather than Garuda Airlines titles. Have I misunderstood the "operated by" description here? Felix505 (talk) 19:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Garuda domestic, overlooked Ujung Pandang (GA 620)

  • I really hope no one can find this controversial

Indonesia Air Transport Services to, Labuanbajo (I8 120), Mataram (I8 110)

  • Controversial, 124xxx does not agree with Labuanbajo (I8 120) departing DPS for LBJ at 10:30. no idea why.

JAL are clearly dropping their service and the link in the table goes to the JAL announcement page (last arrival in Japan 01 oct). I think the source and description are fine like this, it is clear and linked.

  • Controversial edit as 124x247x221x146 apparently object to this having a source/link to the JAL page stating that the the service ends 1 October I understand the objection may be that the link is not permitted under WP:Airport ruling. He keeps on referring me to the WP:Airport and deletes the link when I edit it into the table. My understanding is that currently 124x247x221x146 only objects to this having a source link as he has the dates expressed in his most recent edit.
  • Having done that how long do we now leave it there in the list as the last flight ex DPS is scheduled to arrive in Japan on 1 oct 2010?

Jetstar Asia Operated by Valuair- destination Singapore.

  • Controversial edit as 124x247x221x146 deletes Jetstar Asia when I add it to the table. Jetstar Asia are selling tickets to ride on the VF registered 9V- VLF, 9V-VLE aircraft. Earlier this year the ValuAir aircraft were repainted in Jetstar livery retaining a Valuair title and registration. Previously they were in ValuAir livery with a Valuair title and registration.
  • Remove ValuAir listing / list JetstarAsia, operated by Valuair to SIN. Supported by #1:User:Sb617. #2:User:Felix505 on 2 Oct 2010

Lion Air, Jakarta (JT11) (JT 17) (JT 21) (JT25) (JT31), Jogyakarta [Yogyakarta] (JT 561),IW Menado (JT 740), Ujung Pandang [Makassar] (JT 740) (JT 746), Surabaya (JT 53), (JT 57),

  • Controversial edit as 124xxx maintains that Lion do Mataram (IW 1852) and Kupang (IW 1830), both of which are Wings services/ops, code shared Lion

""Mandala, just do Surabaya (RI 567) (RI 563), and Yogjakarta (RI 570) Controversial, 124x247x221x146 thinks they do Jakarta and as well. They don't.

Merpati Domestic. Bandung (MZ 617), Bima (MZ 622) (MZ 8480), Ende (MZ 6550) [30m stop in Labuanbajo-MZ 6961], Jakarta (MZ 645), Kupang (MZ 644), Labuanbajo (MZ 6550, (Mataram (MZ 6602) (MZ 6608), Maumere (MZ 606), Surabaya (MZ 617 ), Tambolaka (MZ 648). Waingapu (MZ 680)

  • Controversial edit. 124x247x221x146 apparently thinks Merpati don't go to Ende, Lauanbajo, Tambolaka, and that they do go to Makasssar, Merauke and Waikabubak. Merpati seem to think differently to 124x247x221x146 who keeps on reverting if I edit these details into the table. The Merpati website booking system and the DPS departures info does not support the detail that 124x247x221x146 places in the table.

Merpati Dili (International), should be listed as service but with a note. DPS-DIL is NOT listed online and cannot be booked online using the Merpati website. Occasionally arrivals may not show at Ngurah Rai Airport Official Website-includes flight information due to flight cancellations. Merpati did offer online bookings in the past. (It appears that the airline aggregators have also stopped listing Merpati DPS-DIL).

  • This service should have a note attached that the service is not listed online nor are bookings available online. Enquiries must be made through a recognised travel agent or to Merpati direct. (MZ 8480, DPS-DIL Dep10:35 arr13:25 using a 737-200) My apologies on my not finding the arrivals/dep info previously, maybe the flights were temporarily cancelled. Merpati often cancel their flights if there are insufficient passengers, even immediately prior to scheduled departure. That may explain why it was not listed on the airports website on those days I looked for it. Previously bookings could be done online and Merpati listed a flight number. I know this because I have previously booked this service online at Merpati website myself.

Pelita (and all destinations). Pelita have returned to charter ops only and do not appear to be servicing any of the prior listed destinations. On their website, they describe charter only, they do not appear to operating and do not appear to be ticketing. No arrivals show at Ngurah Rai Airport Official Website-includes flight information. This airline has long term relationships with TransNusa for ops in the NTB region.

  • Controversial edit. When I de-list it 124x247x221x146 puts it back in. As he has done it a few times now and refuses to discuss it. Again he refers to WP:Airports although I am not sure why. I think it should be de-listed or listed as "Charter only" and with no destinations listed.

Skywest When I came to the article Perth was listed as a destination. Cannot book it and there are no clear announcements from Skywest. I think the article should list Pt Hedland only.

  • 24x247x221x146 has has previously deleted Perth listing.

Sriwijaya Air Jakarta (SJ 261), Surabaya (SJ 267) using 737-200 (departed DPS-SUB 29 sept). [Sriwijaya booking system now shows DPS-SUB is via CGK (SJ 261) connecting (SJ 256) for October 2010].

  • Controversial as 124x247x221x146 does not think Sriwijaya Air service Jakarta (SJ 261) and deletes it If I add Jakarta to destinations. It is bookable and flights are departing DPS. They are not servicing Benete/Sumbawa or Bandung (no flights departing and cannot book at SJ online), Also their booking system is now only showing SUB as via CGK for 30 Sept onwards.

Strategic their website is clear on their routes and commencements.

  • It seems 124x247x221x146 is now accepting using a source to the Strategic website. Press releases where they describe the new and not yet commenced service and provide the start date. 124x247x221x146 no longer deletes this link when I put it into the article. However the proposed edit matches the link style to the other similar displayed in table. Maybe this is no longer 'controversial'.

Travira (and all destinations). Travira have returned to charter ops only and do not appear to be servicing any of the prior listed destinations. (On their website, they describe spot charter only and do not appear to be operating their own flights in NTB region, or ticketing on them. No arrivals show at Ngurah Rai Airport Official Website-includes flight information

  • Controversial edit. When I de-list it 124x247x221x146 puts it back in. As he has done it a few times now and refuses to discuss it. Again he refers to WP:Airports although I am not sure why. I think it should be de-listed or listed as "Charter only" and with no destinations listed.

Trigana

  • Controversial edit, they normally describe themselves as "Trigana" on titles, signage, ticketing graphics and their website. Technically their name is Trigana Air Services, 124x247x221x146 deletes Trigana and replaces with Trigana Air Services when I have edited the table and used Trigana. I think the use of the full name in the Destinations table is quite unnecessary. They also seem to have long term aircraft operational relationships with TransNusa.

TransNusa fly to many NTB West Nusa Tenggara destinations from DPS; Bima, Ende, Kupang, Labuanbajo, Mataram, Ruteng, Sumbawa, Tambolaka. Transnusa have a complex arrangement of 'operational parnerships' throughout the region. For operations out of Bali they appear to use their own aircraft as well as those of others under charter such as IAT, Riau, Avirstar. Their schedule page shows the whole thing {http://www.transnusa.co.id/flightinfo/flight-schedule.html TransNusa Schedule]. If we want to list out the whole thing as operated by the different aircraft charters on the different routes as 'operated by' then it may get very messy especially as they change aircraft around a bit. For example DPS-AMI may be 08:00 and 17:00 and there is a Riau operated flight at 12:30, all Fokker F50 ops but I think they are swapped about a bit depending on other charters and other issues of availability and serviceability. Labuanbajo is a mix of IAT and Avirstar aircraft. For the flights further east into NTB it gets even messier.

  • Controversial edit as 124x247x221x146 deleted Ende, Kupang, Labuanbajo, Ruteng, Sumbawa, Tambolaka every time I put them in. The airlines website describes these destinations on their Schedules page. As some of them are not daily it takes a few days to check them off against airport arr/dep lists and sometimes a flight may be cancelled as the NTB region is fairly remote or an aircraft is out of service or unavailable. TransNusa are normally described on titles, signage, ticketing graphics and their website. Technically their name is TransNusa Air Service. 124x247x221x146 deletes TransNusa and replaces with "TransNusa Air Service" when I have edited the table and used TransNusa. I think the use of the full name in the Destinations table is quite unnecessary.

Wings service Bima (IW 1826), Kupang (IW 1830), Labuhanbajo [Sat&Tues] (IW 1830), Mataram (IW 1852), Maumere (IW 1820), Semarang (IW 1803), Surabaya (IW 1807), Tambolaka (IW 1832) from DPS. Please note: DPS-Mataram is by Wings registered aircraft crewed by Wings and code shared Lion. Online ticketing is per Lion who are their parent company and the fight has a Wings flight number. Lion will ticket with a Lion flight number if purchased over the internet. Wings is a feeder airline for Lion and previously operated some routes as Lion flights, now they seem to be clearly defining and assigning routes and code sharing instead. Examples would be AMI-SUB, DPS-JOG. Lion will use a Wings operated aircraft on a route such as AMS-SUB, the first of the 3 daily flights is Wings the 2nd and 3rd flights are Lion flights (7days/wk every day is the same). In the past they sometimes operated Wings aircraft on some Lion flights but they seem to have stopped this. Maybe this is part of their efforts to comply with EU certification requirements and not drawing attention the MD82/83,s they are highly suspect aircraft and well past their use by dates. They seem to be in the middle of a rebuild of the Wings brand, consolidating the Lion brand and introduce their new Wings ATR500's, hopefully soon retiring the MD 82/83's as they promised to years ago. The other routes Bima, Labuhanbajo, Mataram, Maumere, are turbo prop operations, that pretty much locks them into being Wings flights. Lion will sell tickets on these flights as a code share. Lion publicly announced current strategy is to position Wings as a feeder/regional airline. With the new ATR purchases (15 ordered-15 more on option).

Methodology: Include in list - If the route has a flight number and will accept a booking date. Also check flight arrivals per airport operator DPS and recheck again / airport operator SUB and Flightstats website for AMI as that (airport has no arr/dep list provided).

Announced as commencing (begins) - List but give stated commencement date with a link to source follow no year if this year if no exact date available try to reflect information available at source.

Delete from list - if no flight number to destination, or (this occurs with a limited number of Merpati destinations) a flight number exists but no booking can be made - try day range/try month range) and if there is no evidence of flight arrivals/departures and a booking cannot be made to the destination or the destination cannot be found in the system then delete from listing. Delete from list - charter operators that previously operated (scheduled) charter flights to set destinations but no longer appear to - check operators website (Trivira and Pelita) no longer describe such operations and state charter services only. No evidence of their flights arriving. Their aircraft may still appear operating as TransNusa as they have such relationships, they will be Transnusa flights though.

Links to check airline sources appear earlier in a URL's for airlines on this page, in the table itself and in the notes above. Felix505 (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Not done for now: I have disabled the request for now as it was not clear that this version is supported by consensus. Please reactivate when all is ready to go. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.flystrategic.com.au/Media/Press_Releases.aspx
  2. ^ http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/bisindonesia/garuda-considers-offloading-struggling-budget-carrier Garuda Considers Offloading Struggling Budget Carrier Faisal Maliki Baskoro, September 08, 2010

Proposed change section

I have removed (The local religion forbids the use of tunnels and bridges) as I can find no support for such a statement. If someone can cite then please put it back in. The Balinese Hindu's have a tunnel building tradition in regard to water distribution. As for tunnels under airport runways I admit I have no knowledge. Possible with no cite then it should be pulled out. In regard to tunnels in Bali R o b e r t P r i n g l e's A Short History of Bali, Indonesia's Hindu realm describes (water) tunnel building traditions in Bali. Felix505 (talk) 14:57, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Ngurah Rai International Airport

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ngurah Rai International Airport's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Route Map":

  • From Cebu Pacific destinations: Cebu Pacific Air - Route Map
  • From Singapore Airlines destinations: "Singapore Airlines Route Map". Singapore Airlines. Retrieved 30 November 2011.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:21, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Image's Page

I have to change and re-new the Image's Page, because Ngurah Rai International Airport has been upgraded and built a new terminal building.

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