Talk:Nganguela language

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Papstein

Ndandulalibingi, yes, there is a problem with the citation and you know that. Pretending that you don't, is simply trying to game the system and I no longer have any patience for that. Papstein is an unknown author. If you disagree, please provide evidence, by quoting from professional, academic publications where authors are referring to his work and him as a scholar. You might also want to explain why no other WP knows of his work, except for those who heard about him via you and your edits. Any established author has a bio published in numerous places, why isn't that the case with Papstein? Remember that you yourself say of Papstein's work "there are so many sources who agree with this research on google books, some of whom have been blacklisted on your web pages [Wikipedia]", that when you try to include these sources you get the message that "Your edit was not saved because it contains a new external link to a site registered on Wikipedia's blacklist". It is pretty clear to me that if a number of works have been blacklisted, and Papstein's work coincides with these blacklisted works, then there is something wrong with his work.

Also remember what you have said here about one of Papstein's books: "Cheke Cha Mbunda Cultural and Writers Association are the custodians of this volume. We stock and sell these books. We have a shop on our website, those interested can therefore make an order and send to chekechambunda@yahoo.com, ... the first edition is out of stock, we are about to reprint the revised one in English".

Please remember that as Single Purpose Account whatever you do here will be subjected to greater scrutinity. A number of other editors and I have in the past asked you to also edit non Mbunda-related articles. The fact that you are concerned only with the Mbunda is highly suspect and raises concern. Remember that the Wikipedia has been very lenient with you in allowing you to continue editing, given your official ties with the Mbunda Kingdom Research and Advisory Council and the Cheke Cha Mbunda Cultural and Writers Association and you having personally stated that whatever you edit here is done in close agreement with those structures. Instead of insisting on reistating information already discussed, please engage in real academic scholarly work and contribute with new information that will enrich the project. And please do not add sources that you have never consulted as you have done throughout with Pélissier, Heimer and Luís Figueira. I trust that I have been clear, but will gladly clarify anything that you do not understand. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 14:04, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

..Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) Now that you have opened this discussion again, I will respond by giving you an update of our continued research. Due to your continued disrespectful insinuations for our Mbunda oral research and the editing assistance we got from Dr. Robert Papstein, resulting in you calling him a "fringe author who writes on commission, including for the Mbunda Cultural Council to embellish Mbunda history", which disrespect you have now extended to Aflis, let me assure you that you do not know all about Angola and its ethnic groups. Your hate for anything Mbunda is not strange because it the same hate the Portuguese colonialists and Missionaries who invented Ngangela language had for this ethnic group because of their bravery in defending their territory from colonialism.

We are currently in position of the book: "Luís Figueira, Princesa Negra: O preço da civilização em África, Coimbra Edição do author, 1932". Relevant pages are currently being translated to English, for me to comprehend them before I use them as sources. However reports from Luanda claim that this book has a lot about Mwene Mbandu Lyothzi Kapova which you seem to be refuting. Its analysis of the Mbunda people is in contrast with your previous accusation that "I am elevating Mbunda above others over conquest". This book is actually adding to one of the independent sources cited here. It actually continues to guide that: "This book does not contain all concerning the life of the Mbunda, more is in another of Luis Figueira's books called 'Vidas Selvagens', claiming, that is the one containing information about the Mbunda, the Chokwe and the Luvale. If you are in doubt contact "josekatuya@gmail.com" in Luanda for more details in Portuguese language.

There is another book we are awaiting called: "Terras do antigo Luati", by Horácio A.R. de Carvalho, Mensário administrativo, 20/21, 1948, p. 63". Concerning Mwene Mbandu Lyondthzi Kapova, it has information that: "This man was forcibly taken by the Portuguese to Benguela (in 1917?), but fled from there, and apparently the Portuguese then lost his trace".

Now that Luís Figueira, Princesa Negra: O preço da civilização em África, Coimbra Edição do author, 1932 is in our position, we are currently pursuing the other three books: Miragem Africana, Terras do Antigo Luati, and Vidas Selvagens.

At the end of this exercise we will definitely prove you wrong that Dr. Robert Papstein is a fringe author and hope you will have respect for other people's research. You might be a good reviewer on Wikipedia as envisioned by some, but you have this one all wrong.

Please be advised also that the book you have mentioned in my statement in your preamble is not one of Dr. Papstein's books. He was only invited to edit the work. The book was researched and written by Cheke Cultural Writers Association which is now known as Cheke Cha Mbunda Cultural and Writers Association. I am surprised that this simple English cannot be understood by a person so close to the language as you, unless an editor is a researcher and a writer. Let me confirm it to you that Cheke Cha Mbunda Cultural and Writers Association are the owners of "The History and Cultural Life of The Mbunda Speaking People" and not Papstein.

I do not equally understand why my interest in exposing Mbunda history to the world for scrutiny should be suspicious to you. If I didn't you wouldn't be talking about Mbunda today. I have edited on Luvale, Lozi, Ngangela and other people articles, contributing what I know and correcting misconceptions from people like you, who think you are all knowing. Ndandulalibingi (talk) 11:47, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In Summary:

You confirm that you used Pélissier without ever even have swet eyes on it.
You confirm that you used Figueira without ever even have swet eyes on it (however badly you bungled it and are trying to cover up).
If the author of the book is not Papstein, but rather the Cheke Cultural Writers Association which is now known as Cheke Cha Mbunda Cultural and Writers Association, then even worse - it is a primary sourlce and everything coming out of it should be deleted.

Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 12:52, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You surprise me as you are really full of yourself and contradictory. One time you say primary sources can be accepted to a certain degree and then vis versa. Based on that, you even tried to co-opt me in working with you on an article here even if based on primary sources. We all know about primary and secondary sources and a lot of time has been spent reflecting on this, both from administrator and Aflis. It is either you are always rushing to condemn without fully understanding or you are acting in defense. My statement above is clear, how I came across those sources and prompted to use them has been spelt out and you commented on it. What more do you want? Wait for me to give out what is contained in sources given above and see if it does not concur with my input.

I note with regret here that, due to your preconceived ideas, you have failed to distinguish between two different sources that have been used in my articles: 1). Robert Papstein, "The Central African Historical Research Project", in Harneit-Sievers, 2002, A Place in the World: New Local Historiographies from Africa and South Asia, p. 178 by Papstein and 2). Robert Papstein, 1994, The History and Cultural Life of the Mbunda Speaking People, Lusaka Cheke Cultural Writers Association, pages 79-81, ISBN 9982-03-006-X by Cheke Cultural and writers Association and edited by Papstein. I have no further time to spend on this. Ndandulalibingi (talk) 16:45, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Emil Pearson

Please find independent proof that Emil Pearson "invented" the Nganguela language. That would be highly appreciated. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 14:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]