Talk:NetZero/Archives/2014

Clean-Up

IMHO, this article reads more like an advertisement than an actual info source about the company. If this isn't fixed, it could be eligble for deletion. --D-Day 19:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I just did a little bit of work on it. Let me know what you think. --Alphachimp 20:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

"As dial-up connections are limited in speed by the Federal Communications Commission..." - This is inaccurate. Dial-up speeds are ultimately dictated by physics, Shannon's law -- not policy law. I think this FCC blurb originates from when US Robotic's x2 technology tried to use too high voltage (each discrete level in PCM was represented by a discrete voltage) which exceeded the FCC's allowed voltage limits; therefore x2 topped out at 53 kbit/s. Rockwell's K56Flex implementation didn't have this problem with voltage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.111.243.240 (talk) 23:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually the FCC *does* limit speeds of 56k modems. Inside the U.S. modems may not exceed a certain power level, thus they are limited to only 53.3 kbit/s. Outside the U.S. no such limit exists and they can go to their designed 56k limit. ---- Theaveng (talk) 14:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

No, the response above you is correct. The FCC does not limit the *speed* of a 56k modem. 56k is the maximum speed physically possible over a PSTN line. (Well, 64kbps if you had a direct PCM connection, but that's neither here nor there.) The FCC limits the voltage of the transmission on the line, as you said - but if somehow it were possible to transmit at 128kbps or 256kbps using this power limit (it's not), there are no FCC regulations stopping that. The article incorrectly states that the FCC limits speed. The 53.3kbps vs 56kbps argument is relatively moot, as the point being made is in comparison to and in the context of broadband speed. The article incorrectly implies that the fact that dial-up connections cannot obtain broadband speeds is due to the FCC, whereas it is not - it's due to physics. The article should state that broadband speeds are not possible over a dial-up connection due to Shannon's law and the channel bandwidth of a phone-line.

Can someone put some info about their free internet connections?

It's a thorny subject actually. Although some people argue that it was discontinued, most of us can see that it can still easily be downloaded from netzero.net. Netzero free is up to ten hours per month of free internet access. GO-PCHS-NJROTC (talk) 00:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

also they have thing called http://www.privatephone.com i wanna know what its aabout 19:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)208.103.185.12 19:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a soon to be discontinued service. It was a free voicemail box which could be signed up for at privatephone.com, but it's not open to new subscribers because it's being discontinued. GO-PCHS-NJROTC (talk) 00:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Controversy

It should be mentioned that they charge for over the phone tech support. I have Road runner and only need to pay if someone needs to fix the problem by coming over here. But I am a repair tech, so at that point it's their lines that have problems, and again, no charge.--Ben414 03:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have confirmed the exact amount they want for phone support is $1.99 a minute...even for a password reset.--Ben414 02:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Please note that this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the NetZero article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. --Cheeser1 (talk) 19:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Ben414's comment IS about improving the article. He's saying that the article should state, "They charge for tech support" or something similar. ---- Theaveng (talk) 16:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I can't download the free service

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Every time I try to download the software, I get a warning that states, "This product is not available to you." I spoke to a phone representative, and she confirmed that the free service is no longer available unless I first sign for the $9.95 service, after which time I can cancel and keep the dialing software. Bit of a ripoff. (Note that Netzero's Juno service still has a freebie account available for download... Juno is still truly free; Netzero is not.) - Theaveng (talk) 15:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: NetZero now allows users to download their software for free (i.e. without first paying $9.95 upfront). I'm glad they made that change. - Theaveng (talk) 17:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

UPDATE #2: And now the free download has been removed from their site. Once again, there's no way to get the software unless you first PAY for it. ---- Theaveng (talk) 20:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I found it still on their site, although not prominently listed. Click "services", and at the bottom of the page is the link labelled "free". --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Provide a DOWNLOADABLE LINK to said software. If you're going to sit here and say that a service is "free", then you need to PROVE it. Provide a citation per wikipedia rules. Else you can not make the claim. (And please don't call me a "vandal".) (That's just plain rude.) ---- Theaveng (talk) 20:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Their website clearly provides a link to add the free software to your cart. Claiming that it is not trully free despite that is WP:OR, and making that claim without a WP:RS is a violation of WP policies. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Provide a link where a NEW CUSTOMER can download the free software (without paying). C'mon. Let's see a citation. ---- Theaveng (talk) 20:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Please stop multi-posting, it causes unneeded edit conflicts and delays. If you would follow the instructions I already listed above, you would have reached this link. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Well. THAT link says I have to hand-over my credit card number and pay $9.95. Please try again. ---- Theaveng (talk) 21:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

At what stage? I just downloaded it with no problem, no credit card ever requested. Regardless, claiming that their free software is not trully free would be WP:OR (please look at that policy), and that claim requires a WP:RS, not personal claims, especially disputed personal claims. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

And how did you get to that link? I don't see any "services" at the top of the screen. ---- 192.136.15.133 (talk) 21:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

As I already stated ... on their main page I clicked on "Our Services" (okay, typo on my part ealier, I said "services" and it's under "our services"), then the link was at the bottom of the page. It didn't take long to find, I think I only searched one or two other pages from their main page before finding it there. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

hmmm, let me search again ... I may have listed the link wrong, not seeing it. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

This is what I am seeing. Note that the address SAYS "productID=free" but that's not what I am being shown. Netzero is trying to charge me $9.95, and I can NOT download the free software. It's basically bait-and-switch. You can't get the service for "free" is they force you to pay for it upfront.

http://www.geocities.com/videonovels/netzero_notfree.JPG ---- Theaveng (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I found the link again ... once you register on their site, the site layout changes - very annoying. I had to delete all cookies on my PC to reset it. Once I did, then the main page I reach has a link to "Our Services", at the bottom of which is a link labelled "free", which let me download the software at the link I provided to you without the need for a credit card. Once you register and have their cookies on your machine, I have no idea how to find the link again at that point, unless you go and delete the cookies like I did to get there. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that's deceptive. I still only see this: http://www.geocities.com/videonovels/netzero_notfree.JPG ----- The web address say "free" but all I see is a $9.95 plan. ---- 192.136.15.133 (talk) 21:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't upload screen-shots of what I'm seeing from this PC (firewall here prevents it), but I can once I get home tonight. Very strange that we would be seeing different things from the same link, I'm guessing it's also a cookie-related issue. I agree now that there is some slight-of-hand going on, as the links should work the same, cookies or not - and many home users may not even know about cookies, and those who do may never consider clearing them to reset the view - so I agree that it's shady behavior. But, I can verify that the free version is still downloadable. I'll post my screen shots somewhere online tonight, then post a link on this talk page. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

If you would like to include that information, and it is in fact true, I suggest seeing Wikipedia:Citing sources so it is not reverted in the future. 4.247.176.16 (talk) 21:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, if you read the above posts, you would know that I've already mentioned this. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

As an FYI, here's what I'm seeing: Main screen (click "our services at the bottom), Our Services screen (click "free" at the bottom), Free Access screen (URL from link earlier) (click to add the item to the cart), First Shopping cart screen (click proceed), second shopping cart screen. From there, the next screen asks you to register username, contact information, and password. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I cleared my cookies yesterday, and there was Freebie service. That's a pretty dumb web design, that you can't see the free service until you clear the cookies. ----- In fact I just went back there again (today), and again it says, "This free service is not available to you." Weird. ---- Theaveng (talk) 19:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Please note that this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the NetZero article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. --Cheeser1 (talk) 19:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

We ARE discussing improving the article (whether or not Netzero is truly free). ---- Theaveng (talk) 11:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

No, you're not. This talk page is not a tech-support forum to help you access free internet. --Cheeser1 (talk) 14:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Technically, this thread did begin as a dispute over content within the article (view the articles history and change comments for clarification - as well as the initial posts on this thread). I should have left it with my comments of no WP:OR and asked for admin support when it escalated, but I allowed myself to get pulled into a debate over the company itself. I am backing away from this article at this point and will remain away for some time, so that others can resolve any remaining content disputes that come up in this specific issue. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but the point is that none of this is really relevant - the section title makes that pretty clear. It doesn't matter who can or cannot operate their site correctly, it is verifiable as I see it that they have a free service. We are not charged with the task of making sure we can all navigate the web well enough to sign up for it. --Cheeser1 (talk) 18:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I know that I said I would stay away, but I can't leave it at that ... I was not debating you, and fail to see why you chose to use an argumentative tone with a post that essentially agreed with you. Please read my post (not just the first sentense). Please read my earlier posts on this thread (obviously, not the last few from the initial discussion). Please read my comments in the article edit history.

If you wish to discuss further, please contact me on my talk page. I will monitor this thread briefly further, but will be removing the article from my watch list no later than Thursday of this week. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I know. I was agreeing with you, just as you were agreeing with me. I was making clear the relevant policy and why it makes this discussion irrelevant to building the encyclopedia. --Cheeser1 (talk) 21:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

"Yes, but the point is that none of this is really relevant - the section title makes that pretty clear." You can't ASSUME that the name of a corporation matches its policy. Netzero can discontinue its free service at any time, and yet still use the same name. ---- Theaveng (talk) 19:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

"No you're not." So now you're implying I am lying. Well I not lying & I will repeat: This discussion was started becaused I added the following phrase to the article on November 16 (and again January 28): "Any new customer who tries to sign-up for the free service receives a "This product is not available to you" warning, so the free service is no longer available unless the customer signs for the $9.95 plan (thus not truly being free)."

The discussion was not about me. The discussion was about the ARTICLE. I know you hate me and think I am lying to you, but I assure that I am not. ---- Theaveng (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Please refer to WP:TALK, WP:AGF, and WP:NPA. This discussion has absolutely no place on Wikipedia. Having said that, I expected no response, but I will now no longer continue to contribute to this off-topic and inappropriate discussion. I suggest you do the same, and that you otherwise abide by WP:TALK and the other policies I've pointed you to. --Cheeser1 (talk) 07:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:TALK states, "The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page."

That's exactly what I was doing. Furthermore you might want to re-read WP:AGF (assume good faith) instead of jumping to the conclusion that I was trying to disrupt anything. I said it before, and I'll said it again: The discussion was not about me. The discussion was about IMPROVING the article. ---- Theaveng (talk) 14:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

No, and changing the title of the section after the fact isn't going to make that any different. It was explained to you several times that your inability to access a free service that we know they have is irrelevant, and amounts to a discussion of something unrelated to the article. You continued to demand that people "prove" that they could access it, providing screenshots and turning this page away from what it's supposed to be for. You continue to post to this discussion over and over now to insist that you did nothing wrong, when all that is expect is that you let the discussion go since it's not on topic - instead of dragging it out even more. I'm boilerplating this. I don't expect the discussion to continue, because it is not constructive, and never was, and whatever you might think, everyone else seems to be of the opinion that nowhere along the way was this working to improve the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheeser1 (talk • contribs) 11:07, February 8, 2008

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Clarification

To access the link for the free service, from netzero.com, you click the FAQs link at the top right. The second question is "What types of Internet acccess does NetZero offer?" The third option is "Free Internet Access". WP:V. Let it go. It's over. Lara❤Love 16:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay. So how you explain this? "I spoke to a phone representative, and she confirmed that the free service is no longer available unless I first sign for the $9.95 service." Was the Netzero rep lying to me?

Here's what I believe: NetZero is only free to some people. Some people are expected to pay, and those persons do not have access to their software (see: http://www.geocities.com/videonovels/netzero_notfree.JPG --- notice the web address says "free" but that's not what is shown). If that's true, it should be mentioned in the article. ---- Theaveng (talk) 11:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Please refer to WP:OR, WP:RS, and WP:V. What you're giving is us original research. You are not a reliable source. What you assert is not verifiable. In fact, the existence of the free service is verifiable. Please stop conducting original research. --Cheeser1 (talk) 12:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

So if I find another article, say on slashdot stating the Netzero is free, but not available to everyone, then I could cite that as a source. Correct? ---- Theaveng (talk) 11:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

That's not the page I get. I see this. It's clearly stated that there is a free download that allows just 10 hours a month. To state otherwise is, in fact, OR. Lara❤Love 16:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It is evident that you have no idea how stupid some customer service people are at some companies. Because I know speaking with level 1 reps is usually a waste of my time, I always ask for a level 2 or 3 rep. If it weren't for WP:OR, I would mention this in many articles, it's a problem worth mentioning. A statement heard from a customer rep is not a reliable source, that could have been someone new or someone drunk for all we know. GO-PCHS-NJROTC (talk) 16:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

P.S.

I really don't appreciate how some of you have chosen to talk to me (as if I'm an idiot). ---- Theaveng (talk) 11:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

link to petitionspot.com

The petitionspot.com link is a violation of WP:NOT#SOAPBOX and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY. Also note that it shows zero signatures to date (as of 2008-07-20). Posting the link to this article is nothing but spam solicitation and is a violation of WP:ELNO. It has also been reported to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#Request_opinions_on_petitionspot.com. Before re-adding it, I suggest that it be discussed further. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Neutral

Is anyone disputing the neutrality of the article or some particular part anymore? Jim.henderson (talk) 02:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

DSL

Hey if u don't know,dsl begin to have dsl now which seen I used it(pain in the arse) so can anyone put it in and not as free service/ dial up anymore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Killertu (talk • contribs) 00:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

What?!? Please use intelligible and readable language on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.107.82 (talk) 10:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

' In February 2013, Gehrig Industries bought NetZero for $870.'

Err... that statement and its citation are very sketchy to me...  Fiossa 21:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Should be easy to verify. Hornvieh (talk) 23:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

reference need of correction

note 4 refers to an incorrect site.

dr.shohulin@yahoo.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.109.149.137 (talk) 20:47, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Thank you. Jim.henderson (talk) 14:39, 26 January 2014 (UTC)