Talk:Nazanin Fatehi
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[edit]I deleted the "allegedly" from the phrase "allegedly tried to rape her". He did not try to rape her "allegedly". If so, she also killed him "allegedly". That is hypocritical. After all, she also was not alone but with her niece. --Aleverde
This page needs some serious WP:POV work. I took out the whole section on what you can do, which clearly should never be a part of a wiki article. The article is also missing a lot of info (including her full name). --Bachrach44 19:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- There appears to be slightly more info at Nazanin Afshin-Jam (not the same person), if that helps at all. --Kickstart70-T-C 19:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ofcourse her full name has not be released to public as she was under-age when her "crime" was commited. I urge people not to disrupt the article by tags until it is half-done -- - K a s h Talk | email 20:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- 'Disrupting the article does not include adding tags to it. That includes the links to other wikipedia sections I've just added and the 'citeneeded' for her use of a single name. The link you've now replaced that with does not give a citation which explains why she has to use a single name, which is why citeneeded was added in the first place. Remember, even though you are adding text to this page, you do not own it, and should in no way attempt to stop others from altering it in positive ways. --Kickstart70-T-C 20:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- I didn't realize her whole name hadn't been released - I apologize for that. However, the article needs some serious citation work and some more POV work (although the POV had gotten a lot better in the last few hours). For example, the phrase in a western country... is nothing more than conjecture, and the entire account of the story isn't sourced. --Bachrach44 22:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. I removed the "western country" bit in favour of something I hope is less POV, and done a little cleanup. I don't want to step on the toes of LiveLife though. --Kickstart70-T-C 22:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- You are doing great with all the help. I added more text. Page has come a long way in only few hours since inception, that's great and I am learning too :-) LiveLIfe 23:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. I removed the "western country" bit in favour of something I hope is less POV, and done a little cleanup. I don't want to step on the toes of LiveLife though. --Kickstart70-T-C 22:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ofcourse her full name has not be released to public as she was under-age when her "crime" was commited. I urge people not to disrupt the article by tags until it is half-done -- - K a s h Talk | email 20:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
NPOV
[edit]Please read through WP:NPOV and attempt to maintain an encyclopedial intent for this article. --Kickstart70-T-C 20:56, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- I am the one who started this article and it is my first time doing this on Wiki, so any help would be appreciated.LiveLife 21:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Welcome aboard! :) First thing to remember is to sign your posts in talk pages with "--~~~~", which will show up your username and the date and time. Other than that, WP:Five_Pillars is a great place to start.
- For a very short summary: The purpose of articles is not to express a viewpoint, it's to give information in a fair, non-biased way. It's also a community effort, so people will change (sometimes drastically) what you wrote in order to make it better. Sometimes it doesn't make it better at all, but most of the time the people here are ready, willing, and able to help you out on your additions. Hope that helps! If you see something that really stumps or confuses you, just ask another user. --Kickstart70-T-C 21:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Kickstart, please explain what you see as POV before re-adding the tag, so it can be fixed. In these situations with brief content in an article, surely you can change the sentences yourself to make it NPOV too -- - K a s h Talk | email 21:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- If I had time to fix every instance of POV edits I saw, I'd never get anything else done. Words like "obviously", and failing to including text like "allegedly" or "has claimed to" are POV. I fixed those, but it appeared that there were others that also needed help. --Kickstart70-T-C 21:23, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Kickstart, please explain what you see as POV before re-adding the tag, so it can be fixed. In these situations with brief content in an article, surely you can change the sentences yourself to make it NPOV too -- - K a s h Talk | email 21:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you I work on them LiveLIfe 23:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- The main source of this article appears to be Iran Focus. http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5183
- Iran Focus http://www.iranfocus.com/ along with its sister site Iran Terror http://www.iranterror.com/ (look at the website designs done in Mambo and stories as well as the website for the MEK/MKO http://www.ncr-iran.org/ and you can easily see they're created by the same designer). In fact both organizations, including the MEK/MKO, tried to allege that the Human Rights Watch report illustrating all the human rights abuses committed by the organization was a result of some conspiracy between HRW and agents in the Iranian government. The Iran Focus website uses language supporting the MEK/MKO cause. By continously using the MEK/MKO as Iran's "democratic alternative" both the Iran Focus and Iran Terror websites intend to create the misleading image that the group, as well as their political counter-part NCRI, are legitimate proponents of human rights and democracy with a significant backing inside and outside of Iran. http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2620 this article, http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2781 this article, and http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2798 this article for an image of the type of propaganda used by the websites.
- The purpose of both Iran Focus and Iran Terror is twofold: 1) to disseminate information for political purposes and enhance a movement for external regime change and 2) legitimize the MEK/MKO in Western government by removing them from terrorist lists and enhancing their political influence. The sum of these objectives is to persuade Western govenments to militarily engage Iran in order to replace with Mullahs with the Mujahedin.
- That being said there's a variety of reasons to view the MEK/MKO news agencies and similar modules as instruments of propaganda as opposed to instruments of news. First, the organization is a terrorist group under both US and European law. The State Department continues to list the MEK/MKO as a terrorist group. Although MEK/MKO agents have claimed that the inclusion was part of Clinton's appeal to the reformist government in Iran, the argument is no longer cogent in light of the fact that during Bush's 5 years in office he has yet to remove the MEK/MKO as a terrorist group despite significant political pressure by various neo-conservatives (this includes Daniel Pipes who currently has a chair with the US Institute of Peace) and various Republican Congressmen. Not only were the MEK/MKO were designated as a terrorist group under executive order on November 2, 2001, but the President used the MEK/MKO as an example of Saddam’s support for terrorism during the drive up to the Iraqi war:
- The MEK/MKO are highly disliked and disregarded by Iranians worldwide. During the Iran-Iraq war, the Saddam Hussein financed and utilized the MEK/MKO to institute several attacks against Iranians. (Note: the MEK/MKO were also responsible for assisting Saddam Hussein suppress Shiite and Kurdish uprisings in 1991.) It is no suprise, therefore, that most Iranians regard the MEK/MKO as a cultish organization. There is no statute of limitations against murderers or conspirators to murder, nor is there one for terrorists and those who conspire with terrorists. Similarly, the MEK/MKO do not gain immunity for their previous actions simply by refraining from targeting European and American targets for 30 years. Nor have they in the eyes of Iranians. For all these reasons I note that Iran Focus, Iran Terror, people who rely on the two for information, and all affiliated groups should not be used as a source of "alternative information." There's nothing alternative about propaganda, regardless of if it addresses the same human rights issues which we are concerned with. Information sourced from Irantruth http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/mek.htm Caribmon 08:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Note: the article allegedly translated links to a non existent page on the 'state newspaper'. http://www.etemaad.com/aspClinets/news_detail.asp?id=85480 Caribmon 08:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Friend, Saying that MEK/MKO are owner of IranFocus or not is just a conspiracy theory - even if its true it doesn't really matter, does it? the story is covered by many news websites as well as Amnesty international. -- - K a s h Talk | email 08:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Please provide links then. Because the statement that Etemaad is the 'state newspaper' is incorrect. It's not. And Iranfocus is the drive behind this story. There are legitimate concerns about iranfocus.com - and as for calling it a 'conspiracy theory' that's just a disengenuous comment - reserved for people that don't like to do the work. Show me the beef. Let's see some links that prove what is really going on. Caribmon 08:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- As far as I can see, reports about "execution of a young Iranian girl" are unreliable for no reliable local or national news outlets in Iran have confirmed it. And Etemaad.com is a news website. Caribmon 08:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Please provide links then. Because the statement that Etemaad is the 'state newspaper' is incorrect. It's not. And Iranfocus is the drive behind this story. There are legitimate concerns about iranfocus.com - and as for calling it a 'conspiracy theory' that's just a disengenuous comment - reserved for people that don't like to do the work. Show me the beef. Let's see some links that prove what is really going on. Caribmon 08:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Friend, Saying that MEK/MKO are owner of IranFocus or not is just a conspiracy theory - even if its true it doesn't really matter, does it? the story is covered by many news websites as well as Amnesty international. -- - K a s h Talk | email 08:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- I am definitely suspicious of this being propoganda. Iran focus is not a reliable news source. Until this story is covered by another reputable media, then I think this article should have a 'propoganda warning'. I find it very strange that NO mainstream media picked up this story whatsoever. When this story did the rounds, it was the Iran focus story which was copied verbatim. I would be very interested to hear if Amnesty International have had direct contact with Nazanin.
Many links are all at here, I am not sure what you are disputing? Amnesty international is surely not backed up by Mojahedeen is it?!! Amnesty has confirmed that Etemaad newspaper has published this. -- - K a s h Talk | email 09:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Caribmon, you have gone in such a detail talking about your dislike of MKO and Iran focus etc, which has nohing to do with subject of this article (Nazanin). This was a OJ like case that was/is being discussed by Iranian people. Etemaad Newspaper exists. they reported it! Amnesty International exists! Nazanin exists! Sumayeh exists! and that is irrelevant of who MKO , iran focus or whoever else who might also report this girls plight! Here is the actual text of the report in persian. Go to : http://www.etemaad.com/ and click on (Archive) آرشيو
- and go to Jan 4, 2006 and click on تائيد
- then put this persian headline in the search: محاكمه دختري كه با چاقو پسري مزاحم را كشته است
- you see the article in persian http://www.etemaad.com/aspClinets/news_detail.asp?id=85480
- I added the link to the original article (in persian) to the article. ...and please if you have something to say about MKO, discuss it on MKO page! or wherever and BTW: earth is not flat either. thank you! LiveLIfe 16:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
http://www.etemaad.com/aspClinets/news_detail.asp?id=85480 <--- this is the link that sometimes doesn;t work unless when searched for !
محاكمه دختري كه با چاقو پسري مزاحم را كشته است
گروه حوادث: دختر 18 سالهيي كه در دفاع از خود و برادرزادهاش پسري را با ضربات چاقو به قتل رسانده بود، ديروز در شعبه 71 دادگاه كيفري محاكمه شد و با گريه و التماس به قضات گفت كه قصد ارتكاب قتل را نداشته است. اين دختر 18 ساله ديروز از زندان رجايي شهر به دادگاه كيفري منتقل شد و روي صندلي اتهام نشست. در ابتداي جلسه، دلداري نماينده دادستان به شرح ماجراي پرونده پرداخت و براي اين دختر تقاضاي قصاص كرد. وي گفت: در اين پرونده نازنين 18 ساله متهم است كه روز 9 اسفندماه 83 در يك درگيري پسر 23 سالهيي به نام يوسف را به قتل رسانده است. اين دختر روز حادؤه به همراه دختر 16 ساله برادرش به نام سميه از خانه بيرون آمدند و سپس به همراه دو پسر به نام روزبه و حميد با دو موتوسيكلت به گردش و تفريح رفتند. هنگامي كه كنار باغي در كرج نشسته بودند، سه پسر غريبه به سمت آنها آمدند و درگير شدند. در اين درگيري نازنين با چاقويي كه همراهش بود چند ضربه به يكي از پسران مزاحم ميزند و باعث مرگ وي ميشود. بعد از آن نازنين به اتهام قتل عمدي بازداشت ميشود و قتل يوسف )جوان مزاحم( را به گردن ميگيرد.بعد از شرح كيفرخواست توسط نماينده دادستان، قاضي عزيزمحمدي، رييس دادگاه گفت: مادر جوان مقتول در جلسه حاضر نشده اما براي نازنين )متهم( تقاضاي اعدام كرده است.سپس حميد )دوست پسر سميه( كه به عنوان مطلع در دادگاه حضور داشت به قضات گفت: من از چند ماه قبل با سميه )برادرزاده نازنين( دوست بودم. روزبه هم با نازنين دوست بود. روز حادؤه من و روزبه هر دو موتورمان را برداشتيم. نازنين ترك موتور روزبه و سميه ترك موتور من نشست و چند ساعت با هم در كرج گشتيم و بعد كنا ر باغي ايستاديم. در يك لحظه سه پسر جوان به سمت ما حملهور شدند و فحشهاي زشتي دادند. سپس محمد )يكي از پسرهاي مزاحم( سنگي به طرف ما پرتاب كرد و سميه از موتور من پياده شد و به قصد دعوا به سمت آنها رفت. من و روزبه هم ترسيديم و هنگامي كه سوار موتورمان شديم تا فرار كنيم، ديدم يكي از آن پسرهاي مزاحم با بدني خونين بر زمين افتاده است. در همين هنگام نازنين كه روي صندلي اتهام نشسته بود، فرياد زد: حميد، چرا دروغ ميگويي، حقيقت را تعريف كن... رييس دادگاه دستور داد كه نازنين آرام باشد و نظم جلسه دادگاه را حفظ كند. بعد از صحبتهاي حميد، روزبه )دوست پسر نازنين( درخصوص روز حادؤه به قضات گفت: ساعت 9 صبح من و نازنين و سميه و حميد با هم به گردش و تفريح رفتيم. در كنار باغ كه ايستاده بوديم، ناگهان سه پسر مزاحم به ما نزديك شدند و گفتند: اينجا چه كار ميكنيد? سپس به نازنين فحش بدي دادند و او را مسخره كردند. يكي از آن پسرها روسري و مانتوي نازنين را كشيد و نازنين هم يك ضربه چاقو به پسر مزاحم زد و مجروحش كرد كه بعد اين پسر فوت شد. قاضي عزيزمحمدي از روزبه پرسيد: چند وقت بود كه نازنين را ميشناختي? روزبه گفت: 6 ماه بود. قاضي: آيا نازنين از خانهاش فرار كرده بود? روزبه: بله، چون نامادرياش او را اذيت ميكرد. بخاطر همين نازنين از خانه فرار كرده بود و با هم چند روزي در يك ساختمان نيمه كاره بسر ميبرديم. بعد از حرفهاي اين دو پسر، نازنين )متهم به قتل( در جايگاه اتهام قرار گرفت. قاضي عزيزمحمدي، رييس شعبه 71 كيفري به نازنين گفت: اتهام شما قتل عمدي پسر 23 سالهيي به نام يوسف باقري است، آيا اين اتهام را قبول داريد? نازنين گفت: قتل را قبول دارم. اما باور كنيد قصد كشتن او را نداشتم. من در دفاع از خودم و برادرزادهام )سميه( آن پسر را كشتم. روزبه و حميد هم دروغ ميگويند. روز حادؤه من و سميه )برادرزادهام( كه 16 ساله است، با هم براي خريد لباس شب عيد از خانه بيرون آمديم. سميه گفت: بيا با حميد و روزبه بگرديم و بعد آنها ما را به بازار برسانند. من هم قبول كردم. سميه ترك موتور حميد و من ترك موتور روزبه نشستم و با هم به تفريح رفتيم. سه ساعتي در خيابانها گشتيم. بعد روزبه گفت: ميخواهم سيگاري بكشم و كنار باغي در كرج ايستاديم كه سه پسر مزاحم به سمت ما آمدند. به روزبه گفتند اگر دنبال خونه خالي ميگردي در باغ يك مكان خوب است. اين دو دختر را به آنجا بياور تا ما هم با آنها باشيم! سپس يكي ديگر از آنها سنگي به طرف موتور حميد پرت كرد بعد محمود يكي از پسرهاي مزاحم به سمت سميه )برادرزادهام( رفت و ميخواست او را به زور با خود ببرد. من وقتي اين صحنه را ديدم به سمت سميه رفتم تا او را از دست آن مزاحم نجات بدهم. در همين موقع روزبه و حميد سوار موتورشان شدند و فرار كردند. وقتي من و سميه تنها شديم، يوسف )مقتول( كه يكي از پسرهاي مزاحم بود مرا روي زم ين خواباند، مانتوام را پاره كرد و ميخواست به من تعرض كند. من چاقويي از جيبم در آوردم و يك ضربه به دستش زدم. بعد از جايم بلند شدم و دست سميه را گرفتم تا فرار كنيم. اما آنها ول كن ما نبودند. دوباره يوسف به طرفم آمد. در آن خيابان خلوت هيچكس نبود تا كمكمان كند. هرچه فرياد ميزديم كسي به دادمان نميرسيد. من هم چون هيچ قدرتي نداشتم تا خودم و برادرزادهام را از زير دست آنها نجات دهم با همان چاقو يك ضربه ديگر به قلب يوسف زدم. آقاي قاضي باور كنيد من چند بار ميخواستم از آن مهلكه فرار كنم اما آنها ما را گير انداختند. قاضي از نازنين پرسيد: چرا چند روز قبل از حادؤه از خانه فرار كرده بودي? نازنين: آقاي قاضي، باور كنيد روزبه دروغ گفت: من اصلا از خانه فرار نكردم. قاضي گفت: پدرت هنگام بازپرسي گفته 40 روز است كه دخترم نازنين و نوهام سميه از خانه فرار كردهاند. آنها اصلا حرف مرا گوش نميكنند. اصلا اين دختر و نوه من نيستند. حاضرم آنها را بكشيد...! در اين هنگام نازنين فرياد زد: دروغ است. همه اينها را افسر آگاهي از خودش نوشته، پدر من هر هفته به ملاقاتم در زندان ميآيد. قاضي: پس چرا پدر شما امروز در جلسه دادگاه دخترش حاضر نشده?! نازنين با صداي بلند شروع به گريه كرد و فرياد زد: من نميخواستم او را بكشم. من اصلا فسادكار نيستم... آقاي قاضي ميخواهيد مرا چكار كنيد? من يك دختر بچهام. چند بار بگويم براي دفاع از خود و برادرزادهام اين كار را كردم. قاضي: چرا چاقو با خودت حمل ميكردي? نازنين: براي دفاع از خودم. قاضي: مگر قرار است هر دختري براي دفاع از خودش چاقو همراه داشته باشد? و دخترك فقط گريه كرد و جوابي به اين سوال قاضي نداد. قاضي: قبل از درگيري با آن پسرها مورد تجاوز قرار گرفتيد? نازنين: نه، هيچ وقت! قاضي: پس چرا پزشكي قانوني نظر داده كه شما دختر نيستيد? نازنين: دروغ است! قاضي: چرا زمان حادثه راه ديگري براي فرار پيدا نكرديد? نازنين: خيلي جيغ زدم كسي به دادم نرسيد. مجبور شدم. اصلا فكر نميكردم پسره بميره! بعد از حرفهاي نازنين وكيل او به دفاع از موكلش پرداخت و سپس قضات شعبه 71 كيفري )عزيز محمدي، رحيمي، باقري، شريفي، شهرابي فراهاني( به شور نشستند تا درخصوص حكم اين دختر تصميم بگيرند. آيا قضات دادگاه عمل قتل اين دختر كه خود يك قرباني است را «دفاع از خود» تشخيص خواهند داد يا مجازات قصاص دربارهاش تعيين خواهند كرد!
کليه حقوق اين سايت متعلق به روزنامه اعتماد می باشد و هرگونه استفاده از مطالب اين سايت بدون ذکر منبع پيگرد قانونی دارد پست الکترونيک :Info@Etemaad.com
طراحي و توليد: ايده ارقام :: Digitalidea E-Business Studio
LiveLIfe 17:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the speculations about wearing a knife for stealing or prostitution. According to the article in Etemaad, she said she wore it to protect herself. Unless there are a source that says she was a criminal, does not such assumptions belong here. Aeron 00:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Full name released
[edit]Her full name has been released: Nazanin Mahabad Fatehi. (See link nr 10 in the main article).
Can someone with more experience than me move the article to that name? Aeron 03:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Done, thanks for that. I've also removed the sentence stating that her name was not public. --Kickstart70-T-C 03:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Controversy
[edit]"It should be noted that the coverage of Nazanin's story has been one sided. No source has questioned her story. No source has reported what witnesses said about the encounter."
This is an un-encyclopedic comment. If there is a source to question it, we will include it, if there isn't we are not here to question it or make up a conspiracy theory. Wikipedia is not a soap box. -- - K a s h Talk | email 15:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
"Etemaad article link that i had privided does have some of the court testimony of witnesses. also there is now a phone
interview with her mother in persian done by International committee Against Executions. There is a reference to ICAE for
those who wish to hear the interview in persian as well as a reference to peyvast.blog with an article which has portion of
the interview information in english. " LiveLIfe 04:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
" I also made the following correction to the OPINION that one person had posted about what the boyfriends said as witnesses (Author made up comments about how the girl's were the attckers !). Instead I simply QUOTED the boyfriend's comment from Etemaad article which is referenced, which does not support the claim by whoever made that change. Additionally the author had added the comment that Nazanin was disowned by her family!! According to the interview with the mother , she does sot say such things and as a matter of fact she cries and pleads for her daughter's fate. It is appreciated if people do not use wikipedia for personal opinions and only provide SUPPORTED facts" LiveLIfe 05:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
"IP address 69.234.50.65 seem to try to add his/her own point of views without references. S/he uses words such as victim for the alleged rapist and has again inputed nazanin being a runaway despite the mother's comments which I had to add to provide fair balanced view. He insists that being a runaway is important in case of a alleged rape victim and it has to be addressed! It is obvious that s/he is providing a bias and misleading view and based on the history of addition and changes, I recommend a WARNING and other actions. 69.234.50.65 should use other forums to show his/her OPINIONS and views instead of wikipedia. This seem to be a repetitive attempt which is consuming much time of original contributors of this page to revise and correct his/her bias and border line hacking and Vandalism. LiveLIfe 09:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Unsigned accusations
[edit]I want to protest Kashk and Livelife turning Wikipedia, one of the last bastions of impartial information, into a biased political tool. Kashk has repeatedly deleted undisputed facts indicating that (1) Etemaad reported (not claimed, reported) that at the time of the attack, this girl was a runaway who was disowned by her family. (2) That the victim was an Iranian police officer, or Bassij and (3) That in Iran's legal system the victims' mother can pardon Nazanin, but has refused to. It is clear that Kashk and Kickstart are spinning this story to make the killer seem as sympathetic as possible, while demonizing the Iranian legal system and the dead victim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.50.65 (talk • contribs)
I am certainly OK with keeping the facts sympathetic to the girl in the article, and it is possible that she was an innocent person who killed the bassij to stop him from raping her. However you have to present both sides of the story. It is also possible that she is a violent and troubled runaway from a poor family, who needlessly killed a boy who was trying to keep vagrants and homeless out of the park, because that was his job as a bassij. It is also important to note that it is not the judge, but the victim's mother, who is demanding the death penalty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.50.65 (talk • contribs)
- Court agrees that she was being raped and there are no facts supporting otherwise, this is your opinion that you are pushing in to the article. Please STOP. --K a s h Talk | email 19:13, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
That is an absolute lie. Where did the court make a finding that she was being raped? You do not understand the Iranian (or any) legal system, and can not distinguish between an accusation and a finding. If every killer with a self-defense story was let off no one would be in jail for murder, in any country. It is frankly disgusting to see you turn wikipedia into a political forum. Can't you political people leave one place alone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.50.65 (talk • contribs)
Also, if someone with Iranian legal expertise can write an article on rezayat and dineh it would be appreciated.
If the alleged dead rapist is found to be guilty of rape, of course he is not a VICTIM!!! Please do not turn this to court and pre-deterrmine who is the victim..PLEASE LiveLIfe 22:12, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
He was not found guilty of rape. That was just the runaway knife-wielder's story. Even her boyfriends, who would be on her side, didn't confirm her story. Rape is a very serious matter in Iran and punished by death. The facts seem to show that some police officers tried to get a knife-wielding runaway and her "boyfriends" out of a public park. Then she stabbed one of them to death and is on death row at the insistence of the dead victim's mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.50.65 (talk • contribs)
- Do you have citations for the following claims?
- "Even her boyfriends, who would be on her side, didn't confirm her story."
- "some police officers tried to get a knife-wielding runaway and her "boyfriends" out of a public park"
- "at the insistence of the dead victim's mother"
- --Kickstart70-T-C 00:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- until now he was claiming that the three men were not basijee (islamic poilce ) and it was false claim by some organization (which I dont know if they were basijee or not) but now he is changing the STORY that they were police officers who were attacked by a runway during an arrest. That is not even in Etemaad paper. This persoan has to make his own makebeifedia.com LiveLIfe 00:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I didn't mean to make it seem like I know the men were basij. At this point we don't know who they were. The only information we have is from the unknown political group "Friends of Humanity" which says they were basij. As far as the other two citations. On the boyfriend's stories, they're described in the original Etemaad article. Each boyfriend tells a different story, and both stories are different from the girl's story. On "at the insistence of the mother," it's in the radio interview and the Etemaad article. --69.234.50.65 01:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I will probably not spend any more time on here, and don't want to start a new argument, but please continue to ensure that biased political groups are not allowed to use Wikipedia to promote their agenda. Again, it is fine to present facts sympathetic to the killer, even to devote the majority of the article to the killer's story, but you must also give time to reported facts which are sympathetic to the dead boy. That is the value of Wikipedia, it provides the whole story, not just one side's version. --69.234.50.65 01:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- There is an interview with Nazanain :
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=74521094&blogID=124592422&MyToken=0e7fb198-5a38-4b76-800e-f1f8c04cb264 and also this article would address the nonesense about her "character" as a runway girl that the other person brought up: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=74521094&blogID=124592422&MyToken=0e7fb198-5a38-4b76-800e-f1f8c04cb264 anyway they all are references that could have been on this page.LiveLIfe 16:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
- The substance of these contentious matters can be addressed, per WP, by:
- [ a ] checking each factual statement that already been provided with an inline citation, to ensure that, i, that the cited source is still is active (since many of the URL-only sources here are dead), and ii, if active, that the content is in English (because verifiable at the English language Wikipedia demands sources in English) and then actually does verify the factual statement made, and, iii, if provided with a dead, non-English, or unreliable citation, providing, per WP, a reliable secondary source for that factual information;
- [ b ] checking each factual statement that is without an inline citation, and providing, again per WP, a reliable secondary source for that factual information as well.
- [ c ] per WPs relating to biographies of living persons, removing to a new Talk section any purported factual information that cannot immediately be provided with a reliable English language source.
- In all cases, where I make mention of reliable secondary sources, the implication is that they be available in a form other than online-only. Bottom line, as long as material is allowed to appear that is completely unsourced, sourced from non-English venues so it is unverifiable, or sourced poorly (e.g., with bare URLs), then there is no way to arrive at the balanced presentation that Wikipedia requires. If there is no reliable English source about any claim about either the accused or the deceased, we cannot make the statement here. Wikipedia is not a advocacy site; it requires sources for factual, non-common knowledge content, especially in biographies of living individuals. See also closing comment from me below, also dated today, regarding the article and the tags I placed above the lede. Le Prof — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.82.39 (talk) 16:20, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Protected
[edit]Work out your differences here. · Katefan0 (scribble) 22:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I am disappointed that the article page does not point out any of the criticisms raised in the discussion about the lack of sources. Users who appear with no history on wikipedia and create pages like this are HIGHLY SUSPECT. So far, this story is a single source. Why has no mainstream media picked up on this story at all!?!
- I posted above interview with Nazanin. Also here is a list of some of the major media coverages including CNN:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=74521094&blogID=125542994&MyToken=f3fbc5db-6146-49cc-8a87-02355b246847 If there were any resources besides Etemaad article would have been posted. What you see on main page and the sources that I posted is all that there is. LiveLIfe 22:22, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
- AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL issued its 2nd public statement addressing Nazanin; http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/document.do?id=ENGMDE130532006 LiveLIfe 13:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Unprotected
[edit]I've now unprotected the article as it's been nine days and the debate seems to have died down. The unprotection was requested at WP:RPP. If the article needs to be protected again, drop me a note. I also have the article watchlisted, so if edit warring flares up again, I'll reprotect immediately. AmiDaniel (talk) 23:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks. --K a s h Talk | email 00:02, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
This article desperately needs updating considering her imminent fate. As a new member of Wikipedia I am simply not familiar enough with wiki syntax and formatting to give it the attention it deserves. I write only in the hope someone with more knowledge and skill may update it. --I don't like football 00:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Boyfriend?
[edit]I found this sentence odd: "Based on the original Etemaad story, one of the boyfriends recall the story as..." Who are the "boyfriends?" They weren't mentioned previously and the rest of the article states that Nazanin was with her cousin. I haven't heard of her having *any* boyfriends, let alone one that was at the scene. Childe Roland of Gilead 21:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Article exhibits bias
[edit]The article and the disambiguationlinks/descriptions are biased against what is currently known about the case. Once very long ago I attempted to change the article to match KNOWN facts rather than politically charged allegations but as long as the regulars here aren't convinced it will be allowed to drift again.
The link in the disambiguation page should clarify that the victim was an alleged rapist, NOT a confirmed rapist.
As for attackers, both Nazanin and her niece's boyfriends tell a story different story of them, neither of which imply that there was any intention to rape. This totally undermines the current article's basis:
((Both of the testimonials were found in the original newspaper article from Iran: http://save.nazanin.googlepages.com/original))
Samieh's boyfriend says: I have been friends with Samieh (Nazanin’s niece) for a few months. Roozbeh was also friends with Nazanin. On the day of the event, both Roozbeh and I had our motorcycles. Nazanin rode with Roozbeh and Samieh rode with me and we rode around Karaj together for a few hours and then stopped at the corner of a park. In an instant, three young men approached us in a threatening manner and said some horrible things to us. Then, Mohammad, one of those men, attacked us with a rock. Samieh got off of my motorcycle and approached the men to fight them. Roozbeh and I were both scared, so we got on our motorcycles to flee, and just as we got on our bikes, I saw one of the men on the ground bleeding.
Throwing a rock does not equal intention to rape. It is senseless violence, but not rape. The testimony also implies that after the stone was thrown, the GIRLS approached the men to fight them as their boyfriends were getting ready to run away.
Nazanin's boyfriend says: At 9:00 o’clock in the morning, me, Nazanin and Samieh and Hamid went out to have fun. We were standing in the corner of the park when, suddenly, three young men approach us in a threatening manner and said: What are you doing here? Then they said some really horrible things to Nazanin and humiliated her. One of the men pulled off Nazanin’s headdress and Monteau (Islamic dress), and that’s when Nazanin stabbed the boy once with a knife and injured him, which ultimately led to his death.
Both stories by two close witnesses show aggressive strangers but not rapists. It's a clear case of an out of proportion response that led to the death of a person. Based on this testimony, in any western court, Nazanin would NOT have been acquitted. In Canada, where I'm posting this from, she'd be charged with manslaughter (equivalent to third degree murder), assault with a deadly weapon and assault causing bodily harm.
Just a couple of points for whoever would be willing to rewrite the article to reflect what is known and documented, rather than based on politically charged sources such as IranFocus.
--Naked turk 02:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
- Nothing can be done with the information you provide, because you provide no references to reliable sources. We as individual editors are not reliable source ourselves. We must, esp. in BLP cases, provide references to reliable, published English-language sources to make the points we wish to make. I will gladly add material from reliable sources. Otherwise, I concur that in such cases as there are counterclaims regarding the facts of a criminal case, until there is a legal finding that there was an an attempted murder or attempted rape, the word "alleged" should appear. Finally, Wikipedia allows editors to work without signing in. The only bias that should be exhibited is bias against unreliable content, whether it comes from a logged or unlogged editor. Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 16:34, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
[edit]Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
- http://www.evo-arcade.uni.cc/test/index.php?q=aHR0cDovL2tvbWl0ZWdvemFyZXNoZ2FyLmJsb2dmYS5jb20vcG9zdC0yNDAuYXNweA==
- Triggered by
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From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II NotifyOnline 18:03, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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Important article, needs scholarly attention
[edit]Tags were added here because the very sorry state of the referencing and the prose detract from the very important topic of the article. Best wishes, bringing it up to quality. Please see extensive bulleted comment above, from me, regarding the high standards required in referencing of BLP articles; note that myspace and blogs generally do not qualify as reliable references. Otherwise, I will give time as I can, where value can be added by a good writer that is not a subject matter expert. Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 16:24, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
All External links found to be dead, and not easily corrected, as of signature date, moved here
[edit]Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as in the case of the appearing External link to the ICI Radio Canada article), and along with this traceable description, a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article.
- CNN report
- Amnesty international: Iran: Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders
- Original Etemaad article in persian - go to 1/4/2006 archive- click on HAVADES
- Islamic Republic of Iran codes of laws with espect to women
- ICAE: International Committee Against Executions
- Phone interview in persian with Maryam Fatehi mother of Nazanin
- Website of Shadi Sadr the new attorney for Nazanin
- A song by Iranian band: Persian Princes about Nazanin
- Voice of America Television, Persian language program interviewing Nazanin Afshin-Jam
- Etemaad newspaper report of second trial - in persian - Go to 8/31/06 Archive - click on HAVADES
- Video collage about minors on death row in Iran with reference to Nazanin Fatehi
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
External links found to black-listed sites, as of signature date, moved here
[edit]Please only re-add this, with full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as in the case of the appearing External link to the ICI Radio Canada article), and along with this traceable description, a new, active URL, only if the black-list issue is resolved. The blacklisted site is:
- uniDOTcc
Otherwise, the entry is not suitable material for a Wikipedia article.
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
See also links where relationship to article unexplained/unclear as of signature date, moved here
[edit]Please only re-add these, with explanation of relation to article content. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article.
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Lede and Background citations found to be dead or otherwise inappropriate, as of signature date, moved here
[edit]Lede citation was made unnecessary by adding the information to the main text, with a verifiable citation. Background citations: Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. In the case of the Etemaad article, citation of a separate objective academic or journalistic translation is required (the googlepages web page is "Save Nazanin"), before its reintroduction as a citation here. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings.
Broken and / or incomplete and therefore untraceable citations (leading < removed):
- ref>[1][dead link]</ref>
- ref name=IranFocus>Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists (January 7, 2006). [2] via iranfocus.com</ref>
- ref name=News24>Iranian woman to hang (January 7, 2006). [3] via news24.com</ref>
- ref name=METimes>Iran to hang woman who killed in 'self-defense' (January 8, 2006). [4] via metimes.com</ref>
- ref>[5][dead link]</ref>
Citation from googlepages, with translation by advocacy organization, which per WP, is too close to article BLP subject (leading < removed):
- ref name=EtemaadArticle>Etemaad article. [6] via save.nazanin.googlepages.com</ref>
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 18:35, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
References to subject and minor niece edited
[edit]References to subject by first name (familiar) changed to last name, and references to minor niece by first name removed. Reasons obvious. Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 18:59, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Public reactions... section citations found dead or otherwise inappropriate, as of signature date, so moved here
[edit]Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken/inappropriate reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings.
Broken and / or incomplete and therefore untraceable citations, or citations where information in text not found in citation (leading < removed):
- Amnesty International began to lobby on behalf of Fatehi. — ref name=AmnestyInternational> Iran: Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders. (January 16, 2006) [7] via amnestyusa.org</ref>
- In this and others public statements, Amnesty International addressed its concerns about the Fatehi case. — ref>"Iran: Last executor of child offenders: Amnesty International condemns the first reported execution of a child offender in 2006". Amnestyusa.org. Retrieved 2010-07-19.</ref>
- Azmudeh told Canadian Television (CTV) that had Fatehi been killed by a man, he would likely not have received a death sentence "[b]ecause the value of his life would be twice as much as Nazanin's." — ref name=CTVFormerMissCda>Former Miss Cda defends Iranian on death row. (April 10, 2006) [8] via CTV</ref>
- Nazanin Afshin-Jam initiated an appeal, the "Save Nazanin Campaign", starting a petition that attracted more than 330,000 signatures worldwide (January 2007), in an effort to save Fatehi's life. — ref>CNN 4/13/2006 REPORT on NAZANIN</ref>
Citation from blog post, and so not a reliable secondary source (leading < removed):
- Nazanin Afshin-Jam initiated an appeal, the "Save Nazanin Campaign", starting a petition that attracted more than 330,000 signatures worldwide (January 2007), in an effort to save Fatehi's life. — ref name=BeautifulBrainy>Beautiful, Brainy and Passionate about Iran. (April 10, 2006) [9] via azarmehr.blogspot.com</ref>
Le Prof 12.49.20.42 (talk) 23:22, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Legal appeal... section citation found dead, as of signature date, so moved here
[edit]Please feel free to re-add this, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entry is not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings.
Broken and therefore untraceable citation (leading < removed):
- Fatehi's case was scheduled to be reviewed by the Iranian Supreme Court the week following the original conviction.[when?] — ref name=YahooNews>Bodog Music Recording Artist Nazanin Afshin-Jam Pleas to World Media, Kofi Annan and the UN to Save the Life of Another Nazanin in Iran. (May 17, 2006) [10]</ref>[better source needed]
Le Prof 12.49.20.42 (talk) 23:31, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
The Fatehi retrial... section citations found dead, as of signature date, so moved here
[edit]Please feel free to re-add these, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entries are not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings.
Broken and therefore untraceable citations (leading < removed):
- Canadian activist Nazanin Afshin-Jam made a video appeal to Iranian officials 5 days prior to the re-trial. — ref>"Broadcast Yourself". YouTube. 2009-10-31. Retrieved 2010-07-19.</ref>
- She also released a documentary titled "The Tale of Two Nazanins".[when?][citation needed] It featured Nazanin's family in Iran and an emotional phone conversation with Nazanin Fatehi from her prison. — ref>[11]</ref>[dead link][better source needed]
- The re-trial ended on January 14th with a unanimous decision by the 5 judges,[citation needed] clearing Fatehi of intentional murder, but ordering her to pay diyeh (blood money/restitution) for the death, — ref>[12]</ref>[dead link]
Le Prof 12.49.20.42 (talk) 23:41, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Release and appeal... section citation found dead, as of signature date, so moved here
[edit]Please feel free to re-add this, providing full bibliographic material suited to an English language article (as for the Winnipeg Free Press and Amnesty International Report citations appearing), and along with that traceable description, add a new, active URL. Otherwise, the entry is not suitable material for a Wikipedia article. Text being sourced is in non-italics, non-bold, followed by an m-dash, then followed by the broken reference. Categories of problems are indicated in the italic headings.
Broken and therefore untraceable citation (leading < removed):
- In April 2007, Nazanin's attorney filed objection to the part of the verdict that required Nazanin Fatehi to pay the retribution. — ref>"Blog.com - What's your story?". Scenews.blog.com. 2010-05-25. Retrieved 2010-07-19.</ref>[better source needed][needs update]
Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 23:59, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Call for reference formatting assistance
[edit]Besides the need for earlier contributors to review and improve the forgoing moved citations, there is now a need for someone with knowledge of Wikipedia reference formatting to look at the reference list.
The Amnesty and other references appear multiple times, and so can be re-formatted so the full reference text does not appear repeatedly in the reference list. Le Prof — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.82.39 (talk) 11:55, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Done Was shown by a colleague how to do this—never again. In any case, the repeatedly used references appearing yesterday were reformatted, so today they appear once each in the ref list. Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 23:19, 2 May 2014 (UTC)