Talk:Nature's Harmony Farm

Untitled section

Skynrdman, I am formally asking you to discuss the changes you have made to this page, per the wikipedia dispute resolution system. I would appreciate a response.

There seems to be some sort of disagreement with the content of this page. The salient items that are being deleted are as follows:

1) Natures harmony farm is for sale for $1.5 million asking price, USD

2) Natures harmony farm started with many different products, but has ceased production of all of those initial products; which includes pastured chickens, turkeys, grass fed beef, pastured eggs, sheep and both large black and berkshire pigs, both finished pigs and weaner pigs for sale. None of these are produced in commercial quantities at this time, effectively this area of the farm has ceased operation.

3) Natures harmony farm operated a blog, which has since been deleted, and all archival copies of the blog have been removed, from places like the wayback machine and google

4) Natures harmony farm operated a podcast, which has since been deleted, an all archival copies of the podcast have been removed from places like the wayback machine and google

5) While the blog was online, it was controversial; particularly in the areas of animal husbandry and operational philosophy

6) While the podcast was online, it was controversial; particularly in the areas of animal husbandry and operational philosophy.

7) The book that was written detailing the operations of the farm, "the accidental farmers", was controversial, and received many reviews criticizing animal husbandry practices and the deaths of hundreds of animals due to choices made in their care, mostly on amazon, but in other forums as well.

8) All of the bad reviews of the book about natures harmony have been downvoted, in most cases overnight, and the result has been to apparently raise the overall rating of the book and bury the critical reviews.

9) The sole remaining agricultural product being produced at natures harmony now are various cheeses, in small quantities. Natures harmony has used at least one crowdfunding website to raise money for its operations, apparently because the operation didn't have sufficient cash flow to grow.

10) The total investment in the farm, house and operations at natures harmony appears to be in excess of $1 million USD.

11) Natures harmony has posted "intern" positions seeking people to work at the farm at an apparent wage of $4/hour, far below both the minimum wage in Georgia, the state where the farm is located or the federal minimum wage.

12) This page/entry was started by an account that was later determined to be a sock puppet but seems to have some relation to the farm operators - the initial entry is an uncritical advertisement of this farm.

13) Tim Young authored a book about this farm and its operations named "accidental farmers"

14) the tactics used to bury negative reviews of 'accidental farmers' was also used to bury negative reviews of the other book Tim Young authored "poisoned soil"

15) Natures harmony has successfully ask for and received crowdfunding to build facilities for cheese production. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruceki (talk • contribs) 16:48, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

If any of these items are incorrect, please feel free to clear up the misunderstanding. All of these items are true as I understand it. Bruceki (talk) 00:47, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

2nd request for discussion

Skynrdman, you've again just deleted all of the edits without comment. I'm making my second request that you engage in discussion of this page on the talk page. If you will not discuss your changes I'm going to seek more formal discussion of your changes via the dispute resolution process. Check your personal talk page for a link. Bruceki (talk) 16:28, 2 July 2014 (UTC) 50.125.50.208 (talk) 16:27, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

About Nature's Harmony Farm

As a page about Nature's Harmony Farm, the business, and not any individuals. Therefore, only the facts about this business are relevant for reference. Those facts are:

- Nature's Harmony Farm is a farming enterprise located in Elberton, GA - The business produces and markets artisan cheese, among other products

All personal and slanderous comments made by Bruce King that link to his personal and highly subjective weblog are false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skynyrdman1 (talk • contribs) 23:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Skynrdman, I have numbered each one of the points. Some are clearly true -- the farm is for sale, The farm did get funded via kickstarter, A book was written about the farm operations by Tim Young. Which numbered items do you believe are false?

This page can be about the business. That's an interesting distinction. Talking about the business operations, like the change of items produced, or the wages offered for interns seems to be appropriate. Do you agree with that?

I'd like to hear your point of view. Lets improve this entry.

Bruceki (talk) 05:34, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

COI

I've tagged this article as a COI since an editor claiming to be the "owner representative" made major changes to it here. Meters (talk) 18:41, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

I believe that Skynrdman, skynrdman1 and naturesharmony are all the same person. Changing your name doesn't mean that you can skip the discussion requested. In particular, they've deleted factual items, including the fact that the farm is for sale without discussion. I don't know the proper procedure for talking about this, but skynrdman has shown that he will avoid a block and was banned for doing so. This article was originally created by an account that was deemed a sockpuppet. I'm open to how to talk about this in the wikipedia protocol.

Doesn't matter to me what name they use. I think that they need to talk about their edits and the reasoning behind it. I've numbered the points that seem to be contentions above. I think they should respond to them. Bruceki (talk) 07:00, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Ownership of and Book written about operations at Natures Harmony farm

The book "accidental farmers" was written about farm operations and details various aspects of the operation. It was written by Tim Young and self-published by Mr. Young. In addition to writing the book, Tim has given many interviews, with the new york times and other publications.

While "naturesharmony" appears to be squeamish about this entry saying who owns and operates the farm, the operators have gone out of their way to gain publicity and are now public figures. Bruceki (talk) 17:46, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Links to your own blog and Amazon reviews do not qualify as reliable sources. Do not add them again. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:17, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I write a specialized blog on farming issues, and the portions of the blog that related to Natures Harmony are where the operators of the farm have deleted or caused to be removed every trace that they can find of whatever it is that they object to. This includes their own blog and podcast, as well as astroturfing the negative reviews of the book accidental farmers.

So I'm open to some other way to provide background for this otherwise-unavailable information, but as it stands, my blog is one of the few background sources remaining that hasn't been astroturfed or just plain deleted.

If the goal is a balanced article, I think it's appropriate to talk about the controversies, too. Bruceki (talk) 00:13, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Your blog does not meet our reliable source guidelines. Wikipedia is not a soapbox. As I've already pretty much told you the same things several times, you might want to read WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT.OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 01:01, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Definetely WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT since I had already mentioned the same WP:RS issue to Bruceki in my reply to his input on my talk page here. Meters (talk) 01:23, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Disclosure

Following the procedure established in the Terms of use, I want to clarify that I was hired by the owner of the business, Nature's Harmony Farm LLC, to review and adapt this page strictly to Wikipedia policies. Thanks! --Ane wiki (talk) 00:52, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ane Wiki: Please explain how the for-sale status of this business and farm property violate wikipedia policies. In fact, using the numbered items previously in this talk, could you briefly discuss what part of wikipedia policies apply in removing them?

The farm is organized as an LLC, but in inteviews and stories the youngs have never hidden that they own the LLC and solely operate the farm. In fact, by doing the work that they have done in publicizing their farm, they have become public figures.

Bruceki (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Bruceki!:

1 - About the sale: The fact that something is on sale or not, it is not a fact that should be in an encyclopedia. It is a circumstantial event. Can you imagine this in a paper encyclopedia? of course not. Furthermore, if I publish on Wikipedia that something is on sale, with a link to the page where the product is offered, may be considered promotional. Wikipedia is not a sales site.

2 - About the LLC: what is the objective fact? you said: The farm is Organized as an LLC.

With this and other issues, you should think as follows: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Imagine a paper encyclopedia, and you´ll see what information is useful for Wikipedia. The page refers exclusively to the objective data of business: what it is and what it offers. And each of these data must be confirmed by a reliable source. The rest can be discussed, but in another place - social networks, blogs, etc. -.

--Ane wiki (talk) 15:45, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

You'll need a better explanation than that for omitting the sales listing of the farm. This article is about a business; that business being up for sale is a significant event. Do you think we leave out sales/mergers/closures of other businesses? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 14:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

The owner is currently blocked. Making paid edits at his request is a violation of the sockpuppet rules as meatpuppetry . Meters (talk) 16:18, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

I think that the fact that this business is being offered for sale should be included here. In fact, I'm a bit puzzled why anyone would be concerned about something publically offered for sale. Barring any reason not to, I'll edit that back in in a few days. Bruceki (talk) 04:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

It was already put back in a few days ago. Meters (talk) 07:04, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree that if a blocked user engages another person to edit a text on his behalf may be considered a violation of the rules, but what happens if this participation is absolutely neutral? My edition was strictly oriented to adapt the text to Wikipedia policies, since I have deleted the mention of the book, and its character of "Amazon best seller" that I considered promotional. Obviously I was wrong, and I apologize.

About the sale of the farm, the owner told me that the farm is not for sale. I considered that the fact that something is on sale or not, it is not a fact that should be in Wikipedia, and therefore not even considered necessary to mention it. But if you say that it´s important, I should clarify this point: the farm is not for sale, and these links on the real estate pages not belong to his farm. As Bruceki points out, if the farm were for sale, the owner would have no qualms about announcing this information on Wikipedia ... it would be illogical that if the information is true, the owner wants to hide it.

Anyway, the farm owner received a reply to his request unblock, and an administrator is considering it. Obviously, he wants to participate in the discussion in person.--Ane wiki (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Paid editing is a minefield. You need to be very careful not to step on anything. A blocked editor is not allowed make any edits. It does not matter if he thinks the edits are appropriate. Making edits for a blocked editor seems to me to be a clear case of meatpuppetry and I suspect that you would be blocked if this was raised at the appropriate place. I suggest that you self revert before someone does block you. Meters (talk) 20:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Furthermore, as a paid editor you have a conflict of interest, and you should likely propose edits on the talk page rather than making them yourself to avoid potential problems. Meters (talk) 20:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Meters, thank you for your advice. You suggest that I should revert the entire article? If so, what happens with your subsequent editions? I can not fix the problem with a Disclosure, saying that I have edited the text without consider that who hired me was blocked? What is the best way to proceed?

And about the confilct of interest: in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_use/Paid_contributions_amendment the paid contributions are contemplated and establishes its requirements. Paid contributions can be automatically considered as COI? or is possible to analize the quality of the intervention to decide if there is a COI?. --Ane wiki (talk) 00:45, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

It appears that the farm is indeed for sale (see the next section). My assumption of good faith is done. Meters (talk) 03:55, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Sale info moved from article

I've moved the following from the article pending verification,

The farm and existing cheese business are being offered for sale.

The editor who states he is the farm owner claims that the business is not for sale, and the undated sale references mention an artisanal cheese farm in Elbert County, Georgia, but do not mention the farm name. So, which is it?

• information for a different farm, which obviously should not be in the article.
• out of date information (the business was for sale but is no longer) in which case I don't see the information needing to be in the article.
• correct information (the business is for sale) which is germane to the article, but needs a better source to meet WP:RS.

Meters (talk) 20:25, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

A bit of OR on my part on the Google Earth image of the farm for sale show that the street address is about 2000 Bakers Ferry Rd, Elberton. The address of Nature's Harmony Farm is 1984 Bakers Ferry Rd, Elberton. So it seems that the refs for the farm sales are for Nature's Harmony Farms (and not for some other 126-acre artisanal cheese farm in Elbbert County, GA). One of the sale refs was posted 139 days ago, but was updated in the last week (July 18, 2014). So, it seems that Nature's Harmony Farm is for sale. Meters (talk) 03:49, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Meters, I have contacted the owner. He argues that the farm is not for sale and that he has no idea about the links on real estate website. Anyway, the article is ok, and the information about an alleged sale does not affect the farm´s reputation.

Anyway, personally, I'm still surprised that a real estate site is taken into account as a reliable source, considering your own words: "needs a better source to meet WP:RS". Thanks!--Ane wiki (talk) 04:26, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Natures harmony for sale

Natures harmony is advertised as a "farmstead cheese operation", and as such is expected to produce the milk and the cheese at the same location. The owner of this farm and cheese operation have repeatedly denied that the operation is for sale but continue to list the operation with various real estate sites.

If the farm that this operation is listed on is sold they will either have to cease to claim that they're a farmstead cheese operation or find another farm to locate their business.

It makes a difference to consumers who buy locally produced cheeses where and how it is produced. the fact that the farm is up for sale is relevant and interesting to people who look up this farm.

Here's one quote from their website that ties the cheese to their location: " Once you savor a bite you'll see why there’s no need to import blues, cheddars or Alpine cheese from overseas when you can get world-class cheese right here from our family farm. "

another quote: "Heritage and tradition are very important to us, so our cheeses are based on time-honored European cheese methods that we have adapted to our local conditions in northeastern Georgia."

Address of the farm from their website: 1984 Bakers Ferry Rd, Elberton, Georgia USA

the quotes, address and real estate listings for sale are relevant to this entry.

I don't know why the owners of the farm object so much to their for-sale status. they are advertising it themselves.

I will wait for comments about this edit. Barring objection I will restore the for-sale and size comments.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruceki (talk • contribs) 23:44, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I have restored the for-sale information about the farm and business both, and provided cites. I have also provided cites to reviews reflecting the controversial practices. Please do not remove them without talking about it here on the talk page. If you believe that the information is not true, please cite your reasons or backup supporting that.

I believe that these edits are being done by someone who has been banned from editing wikipedia pages because of sockpuppet behavior on this article in the past. After being banned a paid-editor was hired, and this has been documented on this entry.

I'm interested in a balanced entry on this topic, so I'm considering the information, not the source, but I will have to consider that these removals are vandalism if they continue without discussion.

Simply disagreeing with it doesn't make it untrue.

--- Bruceki (talk) 02:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

The purpose of Wikipedia is to include relevant and factual information from credible and verifiable sources about a business or entry. Since June of 2014, you have repeatedly attempted to modify this listing, most frequently by:

1) citing references to your own personal blog, which is biased and not credible.

2) attempting to disparage this listing by providing links to Amazon book reviews, which is not only irrelevant but may be links to your own reviews. In fact, you personally were WARNED about doing this by Meters, when he wrote to you, "Some of what you are adding is not acceptable. A user submitted Amazon.com review is certainly not a WP:Reliable source to quote in the article, for example. It could have been written by anyone, including you. Meters (talk) 21:39, 8 July 2014 (UTC) on this page: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User_talk:Meters#Naturesharmony

3) asserting that the business may be for sale when in fact there is no confirmation of that. residential real estate ads have no credibility in connection with a business listing on wikipedia.

Through your repeated actions it is clear that you are not interested in a balanced entry on this topic. In fact, your own blog, Bruce King, you continually write disparaging comments about this business, as seen here:http://ebeyfarm.blogspot.com/2015/03/update-on-natures-harmony.html

It is impossible to view you as a credible and independent source on this topic.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.157.76 • 11:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

None of the cites or links provided in the edits you removed refer to any media that I control or items that I have written. You are welcome to contact the author of any review or link and verify everything that was cited.

Many wikipedia entries are written or edited by people interested in the subject matter. Your point is?

It has been established that the for-sale status of the farm was and is relevant to this entry (see this talk entry), and in fact, the farmstead cheese award that they tout probably wouldn't apply to this farms product if the farm was indeed sold. If you have information that refutes the fact that the farm has been offered for sale repeatedly, please do cite the source of that information.

The practices of this farm have been controversial; so much so that the owner of the farm deleted their blog, podcast and even went so far as to delete the google cache and wayback machine archive listings and have attempted both to sock-puppet and then meat-puppet this entry and the review system on amazon.com. (skynrdman, skynrdman2 and related conversations in this talk section) You can draw your own conclusion about why they might do that.

Both farm/residence and business for-sale listing cites were provided. Are you claiming that these listings are false or fraudulent? On what basis are you making these claims?

I've provided links and cites. Please have the courtesy to tell me what makes you believe that they are incorrect in any way, for each one you dispute.

---Bruceki (talk) 08:17, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

The owner of this farm and business objects to the for-sale status and has been banned from editing this entry because of both sock-puppet and meat-puppet activity.

---Bruceki (talk) 19:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

None of the links you provided have any connection to the business "Nature's Harmony Farm", which is the topic of this entry. Please do not provide a simple link, but rather SHOW where on that credible link the business is mentioned.

The business is, according to its website, located at 1984 Bakers Ferry Rd, Elberton, GA. If your claim is that that location is for sale, please provide a credible and verifiable link. Otherwise, cease making changes as it is clear from your personal blog that you have a bias against this enterprise. Including a link to an EXPIRED real estate listing has no bearing on the validity of the description of this business entity. The second listing you included has no address and makes no mention of this or any other business and is a residential real estate listing.

Regarding the book, it is not a fact that it is controversial. It is opinion, and since you have been so outspoken on your personal blog, you are not credible as an unbiased, neutral editor.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.157.76 • 18:39, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

The farm is currently offered for sale: The 120+ acre parcel that this farm operates on is CURRENTLY listed for sale. The listing agent is Adam Griffin. His telephone number is 478-227-3020. I called him and Adam confirms that this property was listed by Tim Young.

The property is owned by Tim and Liz young: The property address listed is 1978 Bakers ferry road. The county tax records show Tim and Liz young as owning this property. and the adjoining property and the pictures in the listing and the map of the property for sale are identical. The acreage of the two parcels together add up to approximately 120 acres, which corresponds to the listing and to the descriptions of the farm provided by the Youngs.. Previous revisions of this entry written by Skynrdman also mention 126 acres.

1984 bakers ferry is an address that also corresponds to the youngs property: There is no address 1984 Bakers ferry road according to the elberton Post office. The driveway to the youngs property is located between 1976 bakers ferry road and 1982 bakers ferry road, but the youngs parcel shape is irregular and it touches the road further south. So an address of 1984 Bakers ferry road would work for convienience in finding the property even if not properly established with the post office.

Both 1978 and 1984 have been used by the youngs as their business address: The youngs have listed both 1978 and 1984 with many business and farm listing services as the location of natures harmony farm.

The property at south of the youngs property, 1986 bakers ferry road was foreclosed on in 2014 and is now owned by David Ward, a person unrelated to either the Youngs or Natures harmony.

Regarding opinions in wiki entrys: Regarding the youngs practice of allowing hundreds of animals to die of preventable causes while in their care being controversial, it is an opinion and labeled as such. Opinions and controversies are included in many wiki entries.

Please provide proof before editing this entry: Having linked the youngs property ownership to the address of their farm, and provided a current (and past) real estate and business listings showing both the farm and the cheese business for sale, and responded to your concern about opinions, I am restoring the edits you have deleted.

Unless you have some sort of proof that the information I have researched and provided is incorrect, please do not remove them again.

I will ask that this page be protected from edits: If you persist in removing items without any credible facts to support that removal, I will ask that this page be protected from edits. I have refrained from doing that up until this point in the hopes that you would provide information that isn't present here or point out inaccuracies, but you have failed to do so until now. Please help make this a better entry, even if you disagree with some of the items contained. if they're true they stay.

---Bruceki (talk) 21:04, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Please do request this page is protected from edits. You clearly do not understand the difference between a business and consumer real estate. You clearly have a vandetta or personal agenda and are not interested in presenting truthful facts regarding this business. This is illustrated by various attempts you have made using your name (Bruce King) on numerous sites to sabotage the business. Here are some examples:

• http://cheesenotes.com/post/73666495736/good-food-awards-2014 (where you took the initiative to falsely claim that the farm is for sale)
• http://cheeseandchampagne.com/2014/02/25/fortsonia-natures-harmony-farm-georgia/ (where you took the initiative to falsely claim that the farm is for sale)
• http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10436970-the-accidental-farmers (where you took the initiative to falsely claim that the farm is for sale & criticize the book mentioned in the Wikipedia listing, The Accidental Farmers)
• http://www.filmyboxoffice.com/news/farmstead-cheese-takes-root-in-georgia.html (where you once again falsely claim that the farm is for sale)
• http://ebeyfarm.blogspot.com/2014/04/natures-harmony-farm-for-sale.html (your own personal blog, where you post frequent negative reviews of this business)

These widespread actions on your part, Bruce King, make it appear you stalk this business. Further, nowhere can I find any neutral or positive reviews attributed to you about the business. These facts clearly suggest that you are not credible and have a personal agenda. That is not desired on Wikipedia.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.157.76 • 22:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I will do that. Bruceki (talk) 23:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I have requested a 3rd opinion from an uninvolved editor on this page per your request for outside review.

---Bruceki (talk) 23:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request ( <Should this article state that the farm is for sale?> ):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Nature's Harmony Farm and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

This article should not state the farm is for sale unless that assertion is clearly supported by a third party reliable and verifiable source. I am personally persuaded that the farm probably is for sale, but that conclusion is based solely on original research conducted by Bruceki and Meters. Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. If the assertion were supported by a third party source which expressly mentions the address or name of the farm, then that may be acceptable. But based on the evidence presented on this Talk Page to date, I have not seen a suitable source to support this assertion. Finally, I note that both User:Bruceki and User:99.196.157.76 appear to be single-purpose accounts and each has a likely conflict of interest. I would urge both users to read the WP:SPA and WP:COI policies and exercise caution when editing this article in the future. Slugfilm (talk) 00:43, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the opinion Slugfilm. I understand that the real-estate listing fails on the basis that while it contains contains pictures and a map that is identical to the farm it does not list the address. I'm also convinced that the farm is for sale, and given that sales are advertised, I can't figure out why this is such an issue.

Bruceki (talk) 01:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Bruce, you have not provided any third-party reliable sources to support your claims, and your comments about the book are purely WP:SYNTH/original research. If you continue making such edits to this or other articles, you will be blocked from editing. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 14:27, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Format of Talk Page comments

Not offering a third opinion on this issue, but I’d just like to suggest that the editors here use a horizontal rule with ----, as I’ve just done here, rather than line-fuls of dashes. —174.141.182.82 (talk) 04:19, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Also, instead of horizontal lines, Wikipedia custom is to indent replies; please see WP:THREAD for details. —174.141.182.82 (talk) 04:29, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Author attribution

User:99.196.157.76 has repeatedly sought to delete the attribution of Tim Young as author of the book The Accidental Farmers, using misleading edit summaries (see here and here. I see no reason why the author should not be clearly stated. If User:99.196.157.76 disagrees, please provide reasons on this Talk Page. - Slugfilm (talk) 13:54, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Copying relevant discussion from User talk:99.196.157.76:

Dear 99.196.157.76, having reviewed your edits to the article Nature's Harmony Farm I am concerned that you may have a conflict of interest. I would also like to draw your attention to Wikipedia's policy on single-purpose accounts. You keep removing mention of the names of the founders of the Farm in question (Tim and Liz Young). This fact is supported by a New York Times article. If you believe this source is factually incorrect, you must provide evidence to support this on the Talk Page. If you keep removing this fact from the article without further discussion it will simply appear to be vandalism. - Slugfilm (talk) 14:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a conflict of interest. Rather, I'm trying to make this page factual and accurate. I read the NY Times article and saw mention of Tim and Liz Young, but never saw it stated they were founders. Were they founders or did they purchase an existing business? I further searched the Georgia State records and was unable to find it there, nor was I able to locate it on the business website. There is no doubt that they had a role (present state is uncertain) but I didn't see evidence of their "founding" the business. Therefore, I removed it since this page should be verifiable accurate, right? 99.196.157.76 (talk) 14:43, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

NY Times article seems quite clear: "A little more than two years ago, Tim and Liz Young were living...outside Atlanta...They traded the fairway view for Nature’s Harmony Farm...Before they knew it, the Youngs were selling meat." Also supported by GoodReads review: "When Tim and Liz Young decided to leave their comfortable suburban life and become first-time farmers in rural Georgia, they embarked on a journey that would change their lives." - Slugfilm (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Identity of founder, owner and operator

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

There is no consensus in this RFC. It is evenly split by the few editors who commented. AlbinoFerret 18:05, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

---

User:99.196.157.76 has repeatedly sought to delete the attribution of Tim and Liz Young as founders and owners of the Farm. I have reinserted these statements as they are relevant and supported by the following sources:

• American Cheese Society profile: "Tim Young, Owner and Cheesemaker...and his wife...bought the farm...And they became farmers"
• NY Times profile: "Tim and Liz Young...traded the fairway view for Nature’s Harmony Farm...Before they knew it, the Youngs were selling meat"
• Garden and Gun profile: "Tim and Liz Young...bought a hundred and twenty-six acres, moved to the country, and became farmers"
• Amazon.com (book description): "Tim and Liz created Nature's Harmony Farm"
• Local Harvest Inc. profile: "Nature's Harmony Farm...operated by Tim and Liz Young...we set out to start our own [farm]"

I therefore see no reason why the article should not state that the Farm was founded, owned and operated by Tim and Liz Young. If anyone disagrees, please provide reasons on this Talk Page (not in edit summaries). - Slugfilm (talk) 00:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Should the article specify the founders, owners and/or operators of the Farm?

Should the article name Tim and Liz Young as founders, owners and/or operators of the Farm (based on sources listed above)? Slugfilm (talk) 02:58, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree, the ownership and operation of the farm seem to be pretty clear, particularly the NYTimes interview. Since Tim and Liz Young have sought and recieved extensive media coverage for their business I can't think of any good reason to omit this fact from this entry. Bruceki (talk) 11:15, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Maybe not the founders. None of the sources presented here say they founded the farm. We would have to go to the text of the book to find that out. One of the articles said the farm was "aging," which indicates that the cheese-making was going on before they bought the property. They indeed may have founded the business, if not the farm, but we simply don't know, so I agree with the editor who wants to delete "founders." Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:21, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

• Probably not Greetings, I was called by the Bot. It looks like there is not enough strong references and citations to suggest that they founded the farm, however if they are alive it should be easy enough to contact them and ask, or to call up the farm and ask who ever answers the phone, even though that's original research it would help regardless. BiologistBabe (talk) 16:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

External links modified (February 2018)

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I have just modified one external link on Nature's Harmony Farm. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140726023040/http://classiccitytoday.com/2014/03/elberton-cheese-maker-wins-2014-flavor-of-georgia/ to http://classiccitytoday.com/2014/03/elberton-cheese-maker-wins-2014-flavor-of-georgia/

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This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)