Talk:Nanpa

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confusion

This redirect generates confusion when the user is searching for the "North American Numbering Plan Administration" (NANPA). See article "North_American_Numbering_Plan". Of course, we want to take care of those interested in Nanpa who don't know how to spell it too. When I find a spare moment, perhaps this is my opportunity to learn wiki syntax and write an article, but feel free to fix it first if I don't find that moment. --Anson

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was don't move. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 20:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

move to Nampa

I propose this be moved to Nampa as it is the more common spelling. Also see above re: NANPA. Comments? Dforest 14:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I would support the move, and I always use the Hepburn mb/p style over the nb/p style, but I'm not sure what people are expecting now, as the MoS is kind of shabby. Why don't you bring it up on the Japan Topics notice board?  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  09:05, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure. I'll do that. Dforest 10:59, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's a comment I posted at the Notice Board:

The Manual of Style mandates the "n." I argued against it, but lost. So while I sympathize with the cause, I'm afraid that the community consensus is with the "n." Regarding ambiguity, there is, also, North American Nature Photographers' (correction: Photography) Association, which might some day merit an article. That's what "disambiguation" pages are for. It's not a problem, and not a sufficient reason (in my opinion) to override the MoS. I'll copy this comment to Talk:Nanpa. Fg2 11:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

But it also says Use Google to check popularity if in doubt, and create a redirect from the n version.

Here are the results according to Google:

• nanpa + japan 85,500

• nampa + japan 228,000

This method gives a ratio of 1:2.66. Also I think mandates is a bit of a strong word, considering WP:MOS-JA is a style guide, not policy. Dforest 11:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

If you exclude Idaho from the Nampa google search, the number of hits decreases to 86,900. There are many phone directories, etc indexed by Google which matches the city (Nampa, Idaho) and any business, hotel, etc with any Japanese influence. Neier 13:47, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I see. Perhaps it's not as clear as I had thought. Well, it still doesn't seem to seem to follow the MOS-JA's ruling the Hepburn 'm' as 'deprecated'. Dforest 14:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The 'm' is not deprecated; someone simply used that as an argument. My silent protest against Wikipedia consists of keeping the 'm' in the filenames of photos I upload. Long live the 'm'! I apologize for using the word "mandates"; you're right in that it's stronger than the style guide. But I don't think we should move the page against the clear statement in the style guide. The Internet was written by a billion people with different style guides (or, in most cases, none at all) so it's not surprising to find this word with an 'n', that word with an 'm'. Wikipedia should adopt a single style guide and stick to it (even when I lose the argument). That statement, I'll clearly label as my opinion. Fg2 00:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

• OPPOSE NANPA is common enough, and surprisingly, a game has the knickname nanpa, dokyusei 1. 132.205.45.110 20:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I won't move, per the style guide, mostly. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 20:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

erm... Am I the only one who thinks this article is ridiculosly redudant? Until someone writes an article clearly stating how Japanese guys picking up girls is socially and anthropologicaly different from the rest of the world's guys picking up girls, this article belongs to the Wiktionary. Sheesh. TomorrowTime 22:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

prod

Upon consideration, I prodded the article. As I said above, unless somebody can come up with a good sociological/anthropological reason as to why a separate article outside a list of otaku expressions is needed, then this article is redundant. It really describes nothing beyond the fact that "nanpa" is the Japanese word for "picking girls up". Following the logic of this article, we could create articles saying "utsubyou" is the Japanese word for "depression" or "eigentlich" is the German word for "actually". TomorrowTime 23:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I understand your concern, but I really think this should be merged with an article along the lines of Japanese host culture (as a main part of the job description for "scouts"), which obviously doesn't exist yet. There are loads of materials for research in Japanese, though I've never seen a book about it in English (hostess culture is much more well documented). Someone has to be interested enough in the subject to make a skeleton article from the start, though, and be willing to provide some solid sources. Maybe I'll find some time during the winter vacation to clean up host club, hostess club, and make a good base for Japanese host culture.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  01:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Aah, of course. If hosts or scouts were to be introduced and described properly, than this article would more than merit inclusion. Unfortunately, my knowledge of scouts doesn't go much beyond that they dress badly, and my personal opinion that they are annoying and that sometimes I felt a strong urge to hit one of them. And the hush-hush hearsay that they are often yakuza owned recruiters for candidates for porn movies/prostitution. Which I'm reluctant to add to the article, since it is, as I said, hearsay.

The article needs some work from somebody who knows more about this, that much is sure. As it is now, it's not in the best state. And I still think the title is not the best of all. Not because of the spelling, but because "nanpa" most of the time simply means guys picking up girls. Which of itself doesn't deserve an encyclopedia entry. TomorrowTime 03:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think there's some potential here, but I'd say away from the host/scout angle ... I even wonder if the touting that hosts/scouts do could really be called nanpa (to me that would be a bit like calling a lap dance at a strip club "flirting" ... "professional nanpa" seems a bit like an oxymoron). But I think even a direct translation of the Japanese page would make for a decent, if stubby, article. Throw in some stuff comparing it to the more "traditional" ways of meeting a match (miai, plus other forms of introductions and match-making) and other "modern" forms of meeting people (gōkon, internet deai sites, etc.) and there might be something interesting here. CES 15:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

My belief is that this is a valid article topic, and is culturally different from "picking up girls". However, I understand that the article isn't particularly convincing in its current form. Dekimasu 03:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with TomorrowTime and CES on this. Nobody is denying that there is a certain nampa culture, but just like the kawaii culture that also exists, the article for that is at Cuteness in Japan, not Kawaii (I battled long and hard to move that one). If what scouts do isn't technically nampa, then call it scouting, and give it a separate subsection, but there's really a lot of potential for a modern sexual culture article here (with plenty of Japan Times, Metropolis, and Japanzine articles to use as sources) that should be separated from Japanese culture and Japanese pornography. Nampa itself doesn't imply any culture, it's simply the word that describes a focal act of a much larger "culture", or whatever you want to call it. I would be very motivated to help with a Traditional Japanese sexuality article and a Modern Japanese sexuality article, though titling those would be kind of difficult.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  13:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

All I know about nanpa I heard from friends and acquaintances, and I never really hung with a crowd that would actively engage in it, so I can't really say I have good insight. So let me just come out of the closet here - I studied Japanese, spent a couple of years there, and am interested in Japanese culture, but find it less than tasteful what hardcore otaku are doing to it on the internet. So frankly, the main reason why I prodded the article in the first place was because I felt this was another one of those self-sufficient otaku articles - you know what I mean: the articles about some obscure Japanese concept picked up in a manga or anime and given an arbitrary, rosey tinted description by somebody with no idea about Japanese culture beyond what is drawn. I do most of my editing over at the Japanese mythology project, and that's even harder hit by otaku then the "regular" Japanese culture. However, now that I got the ball rolling, there seems to be quite some interest in doing this article justice and bringing it up to par with other Japanese culture related articles, and I'm happy to see that.

I'd also like to say that I was a bit rash to throw nanpa and scouts into the same basket. Nanpa is a past-time, and scouting is a (dodgy, but nevertheless) proffesion. The two operate with the same tools (talking girls up on the streets), but with different intentions. They are similar, but this is all the more reason to accentuate the differences between them. TomorrowTime 15:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Expansion

An interesting subject, but I feel the article misses out on two crucial points: (1) What does nanpa refer to exactly? "a certain kind of flirting" does not exactly suffice as an illustrative description. (2) What's the origin or meaning of the word? As a katakana word, it surely is a shortening of a longer kanji compound sort of term, onomatopoeia, or gairaigo. Knowing what it's supposed to mean or where it comes from might help alot towards understanding what it refers to. Thanks. LordAmeth 15:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's not a shortening. It has kanji (軟派) and is more properly written in hiragana than katakana. My Japanese dictionary also implies that the term should refer more to the practice as a hobby or habit rather than a one-time thing. Dekimasu 03:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. Thank you. LordAmeth 11:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Unite with Street_harassment

Nanpa in Japan is just catcalling. It's not unique. I think this page should unite with Street harassment