Talk:Nahshon Even-Chaim

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Nice work Grimhim

Nice work Grimhim, looking much better now :) --Thedangerouskitchen 22:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

who likely informed

Where is the information about his intersection with Chris Goggans who likely informed on Phoneix to Federal Authorities?

Where is your source that suggests this to be likely? --Thedangerouskitchen 13:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing for this article

... seems to depend entirely on Bill Apro's book, which does not appear to be in print, and appears to be a fringe publication. This article makes (or made, prior to a large batch of edits today) extraordinary claims, is a WP:BLP (which have significantly higher standards for verifiability than other articles), and relies on low-quality sources.

It is possible that page-line cites to the other books referenced here will resolve these concerns, as may cites to footnotes in Apro's book.

We need to do better than simply citing the existence of a book that makes these claims in order to retain them, in this detail, in a bio of a living person.

--- tqbf 03:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, the book seems to be still in print and is in the catalogue for Five Mile Press, [1], which is a major Australian publisher. The book got a fair bit of press and was in all the bookshops when it came out, so unless you relegate anything short of a Woodward and Bernstein bestseller as "fringe", then it's mainstream. A search through other online book sellers in Australia shows it's still available. It also turns up on ebay from time to time.

The hacker trio's court cases received considerable media coverage at the time, and the saga is (a) at the core of Apro's book (b) central to the ABC TV doco and (c) well covered in Dreyfuss' book, which is online, and also cited as a reference.

Are you suggesting each fact in the article have a page and line reference to each book? WP:Cite does mention page numbers as well as actual book titles, so if I can relocate my copies of those books I can probably provide that if you think it warrants it. Personally I think this is overdoing it. I think the book refs should be sufficient.Grimhim 03:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A further thought: your dispute, according to the tag on the page, is about Even-Chaim's targets, yet all these were part of the police case against him and were covered in the newspaper coverage. Can you be precise about what doubts you hold? Grimhim 03:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really care how you source it, but anyone can claim to have broken into "s3kr3t l4zer Gun comput3rs". If this stuff is verifiably true, we should be able to come up with more than one source for it. --- tqbf 03:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm adding some additional sources now. I'll list the offences to which he pleaded guilty, each of which identifies the victims, and make clear which claims of his supposed hacking prowess are based only on his intercepted phone calls. Extracts of these were in the Apro book and in the County Court summary of charges. Grimhim (talk) 06:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworked this section, removing any alleged victims of computer crime for which Even-Chaim wasn't prosecuted.Grimhim (talk) 12:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Really excellent work. Thanks! You cost me an hour of thumbing through the old Zardoz backlog, though. :) --- tqbf 01:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Phoenix's Story is also told in Underground_(Suelette_Dreyfus_book) --91.213.100.10 (talk) 16:39, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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