Talk:NK Mura

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Merger proposal

ND Mura 05 & NŠ Mura has been proposed for merging into NK Mura.

Reasoning: The three clubs are the same club, despite the bankruptcies, similarly to Rangers F.C., A.C.R. Messina, Darlington FC or Newport County. The articles are exactly the same, and there is no reason to keep 3 almost identical articles about what is essentially the same club. The source which allegedly quoted the Slovenian FA that records are kept separate actually currently shows that all the records are as one.

Please participate in the merger discussion. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The last part is of course not correct, if you click on the source you can clearly see that in the all-time table (which is updated after every match), there are 3 different "Mura" teams; one in the 9th place (original team), one in 28th (2005-2013 team), and one in 43rd (current team). Soccerway has 2012 as the founding year as well for the current team, they are legally fully different teams, they are just named the same every time with a different version of "FC" at the beginning. Snowflake91 (talk) 15:08, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I see 3x Mura's with no distinction between them, especially on the top scorers. Regardless of this, my initial points still stand, I think this should be one article.Abcmaxx (talk) 15:48, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is distinction, if you click for example on the 1st Mura entry and select 2018/19 it will be empty, if you select 2012/13 it will be empty again, but if you choose 2004/05, there would be a list of players and caps during that season, they just use a generic name "Mura" as they dont use "NK" (Football Club) prefixes for any of the club in the database, but each entry is different in the database. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:21, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok and? So they have a different database. The entries shouldn't be based on paperwork, it is still the same club, the honours cabinet is still the same, as is almost everything else between the 3 Abcmaxx (talk) 16:45, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are no old honours anywhere, just like Olimpija Ljubljana case, the current Olimpija has no trophies from 1992-2004 in the cabinet, the clubs are not the same just because they have the same name, in fact the current Mura exsited even before the old Mura was officially dissolved (NŠ Mura registered in 2012, ND Mura 05 dissolved in June 2013). Snowflake91 (talk) 16:54, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite the same Olimpija started out as completely different club. NK Mura went through merely a cosmetic change, all the people, facilities, honours (physical trophies etc. not some website list) are all the same. Abcmaxx (talk) 19:30, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And where is the source for that? Both olimpija and mura were dissolved at the same time after the 2004-05 season due to same reason – bankruptcy/high debt, so why should they be treated differently? Snowflake91 (talk) 20:52, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Because all 3 articles are completely identical and so are all the websites which ever touch upon the subject. The new Olimpia started out as NK Bežigrad which was a different club altogether, that is not the case here. Where are any references to point out otherwise because the 3x (identical) Mura's argument is incredibly weak to be honest. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:48, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What does the name of the club has to do with the fact if one club is new or the same one? So, because the new club was called Bezigrad and not Olimpija this means that the club is new, but because Mura used Mura 05 as the club's name, its suddenly the same club? They just chose "Bežigrad" (a name of their stadium at the time) as a temporary name before renaming to olimpija, because "olimpija 05" would probably sound stupid. I agree that the articles could be merged into one, but only if there would be CLEAR indication that the article cover 3 legally different clubs through the history – so, it would have to include 3 different years in the infobox for foundation year etc. Snowflake91 (talk) 21:58, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is exactly the same situation as Olimpija (or FC Ljubljana and some other clubs for that matter), it was even decided on the same meeting with the same document (http://www.rtvslo.si/sport/nogomet/1-slovenska-nogometna-liga-2004-05/nzs-zavrnil-pritozbe-trem-klubom/106939 )and legally they are different clubs. I once tried to merge Olimpijas but was told that we have to follow reliable sources (especially prvaliga and Football Association of Slovenia) and that sources treat Muras as three different clubs. However, I would not oppose the merger, if it would be done for all Slovenian clubs with the same problem (I can make a list). Linhart (talk) 08:47, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]