Talk:Musa al-Gharbi

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Sources on "We Have Never Been Woke"

There are presently way too many citations that do nothing sitting pretty. I'm keeping the links here for future use:

Ornov Ganguly TALK 22:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 11:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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al-Gharbi on ReasonTV in 2024

... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued since the 2016 election of Donald Trump that media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand his supporters?

Source: "For the past four years, Al-Gharbi tried to tell anyone who would listen that Trump supporters did not in fact fit the sociological profile offered on The New York Times opinion page or on MSNBC’s nightly pearl-clutching roundtables." Tablet

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/School lunch in Japan
Comment: A bit late of a nomination. Thank you Oganguly for your help! I would like this to run on 6 November, the day after the US Presidential election.

Created by Thriley (talk) and Oganguly (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 148 past nominations.

Thriley (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Comment: Thank you Thriley, for this. I will post a detailed review tomorrow. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 18:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Thriley, Here follows the review:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting: - ?

QPQ: Done.

Overall: _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although all checks are okay, I am not happy with how the proposed hook is worded? 183 characters is quite close to 200. Could you please suggest a few more hooks? _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thriley: Please address the above.--Laun chba ller 12:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aafi: is there something wrong with the hook aside from its length? Thriley (talk) 17:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At a glance, I'd lose "including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC" and "since the 2016 election of Donald Trump" for concision, obviously replacing "his" with "Donald Trump's". (I wouldn't wikilink "his supporters" per MOS:EGG.)--Laun chba ller 21:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aafi, Thriley, and Launchballer: Any updates on this one? This nomination is nearing two months old. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that since the 2016 presidential election media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump? Thriley (talk) 19:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:DYKTRIM, I was thinking along the lines of ALT1a: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?.--Laun chba ller 22:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am good with Launchballer proposed Alt1a, if Thriley doesn't have any objections to this, I would be glad to pass this one. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alt1a is not accurate. He is calling out specific media outlets. Thriley (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What if we tweak it to something like, "several media outlets", which could make the case easily? _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 12:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1b: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that several media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?--Laun chba ller 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This hook is too broad. He is specifically calling out liberal media outlets. Thriley (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The source doesn't mention that either The New York Times or MSNBC are liberal and I think their leanings are extraneous and would qualify for trimming.--Laun chba ller 03:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right. I would also suggest removing the image until we have permissions. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 12:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both of the outlets are part of the class of "symbolic capitalists" al-Gharbi describes in his book. To specify the outlets is essential. There's probably a better hook I can come up with. Will add it in the next 12 hours. Thriley (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thriley Its been 3 days since your comment, "Will add it in the next 12 hours". _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 08:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2 ... that Musa al-Gharbi argues that the U.S. is dominated by "symbolic capitalists"?

ALT3 ... that Musa al-Gharbi argues that "symbolic capitalists" support social justice movements to amass social currency?

ALT4 ... that one-time aspiring Catholic priest Musa al-Gharbi later converted to Islam?

ALT5 ... that Musa al-Gharbi once wrote that U.S. presence was worse for the Middle East than ISIS?

ALT6 ... that Musa al-Gharbi was too qualified to manage a store's shoe department? Bremps... 16:50, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And use

as the image hook; it is indisputably free. Bremps... 16:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bremps: Thank you for the alt hooks. They are all ok, but I want to run something that details his work a bit more and draws readers. Thriley (talk) 22:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT7 that Musa al-Gharbi argues that Kamala Harris is a prototypical "symbolic capitalist", someone who supports social justice movements in order to further their own interests? Thriley (talk) 22:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Thriley, the hook must comply with WP:DYKBLP (no hooks dedicated solely to unduly negative aspects of a person's character) ~~and WP:DYKHOOKCITE, as there's nothing on K. Harris in the article.~~ This hook won't fly. Also, I'd caution against your first proposed hooks, as they're pretty common political sentiments. Bremps... 01:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT8...that Musa al-Gharbi argues that the U.S. is dominated by "symbolic capitalists" who depend on a "racialised caste system" of disposable servants? Thriley (talk) 03:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT9...that Musa al-Gharbi argues that American "symbolic capitalists", dependent on a "racialised caste system", support social justice movements to further their own interests? Thriley (talk) 03:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thriley, I am personally inclined to Alt3, but Alt8 seems doable, for which I'd really want to understand how it is phrased in the article, "On the Upper West Side, an area known for its progressive politics, he found a "racialised caste system"..." Upper West Side, isn't the entire US, right? _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 05:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the image to the nomination. I suggest ALT10...that Musa al-Gharbi once argued that "it would not be a stretch to say that the United States is actually a greater threat to peace and stability in the region than ISIS"?--Laun chba ller 00:11, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~ALT10 seems good to me.~~ Although Alt10 seems okay, Alt3 stands better. Let's not keep this hanging around. Good to go. Use of picture is recommended. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 10:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I much prefer ALT3. Thriley (talk) 18:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Potential sock-puppetry/self-edits

Just wanted to note that this page contains IP address edits that trace back to Stony Brook New York - the city that Musa al-Gharbi is currently listed as being a professor in. While it cannot be confirmed that these edits are Al-Gharbi himself (or an associate), please keep it in mind given the potentially contentious subject matter. A MINOTAUR (talk) 03:15, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]