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@DigitalPhantoms: This article is about a murder for hire that 3 people have been convicted for. It should be named as such. If the article is to be a biography of a living person it needs to be well-rounded, and explore other aspects of the subjects life beyond being a perpetrator of a crime. Presently, this article is a pseudo-biography and little more than a vehicle to write about the "murder of Kendra Hatcher", which Wikipedia doesn't currently have an article for. Apart from her crime, the subject of this article is a low-profile individual and there are no sources cited in this article that are about Brenda Delgado, as a person, to provide information about her, that are not related to the murder she has been convicted of. Where is the information about her birth, parents, siblings, education, occupation, and other life achievements? Without this information there is little point in claiming this article is a biography. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is not much information about her as a person without the context of the crime its self given that she became notable due to being the FBI Ten Most Wanted List. I did now include a few more sources that explain her personal life and added it as the background section, making the crime its self a different section in regard to the murder that made her notable. DigitalPhantoms (talk) 21:35, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DigitalPhantoms: That strongly suggests to me you should be rewriting this article to be about the "Murder of Kendra Hatcher". While Brenda Delgado might be notable for being on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list, that is primarily because she hired others to murder Hatcher, and is only on the list because she subsequently fled to Mexico and was extradited back to the US to face justice. Her presence on the list cannot overcome the fact she is primarily notable for the murder she committed and would not have been wanted, otherwise. How can Wikipedia have an article about a criminal who is primarily notable for a single crime without having an article about that crime? It implies the crime is not considered notable, and if the crime is not considered notable, then the criminal who instigated it probably isn't either. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, how do you suggest I go about rewriting and making it adhere to a crime rather than a biography. I assume it's more than just changing the title. I should also mention that many others on the list are written like this, especially the current top ten. It seems very inconsistent and the biography format became the standard way to talk about these individuals where the only reason we know anything about them is because of their crime, many of which don't have a page dedicated to the crimes themselves. DigitalPhantoms (talk) 00:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DigitalPhantoms: I think the first step is to rewrite the lead to be about why Kendra Hatcher was murdered by Brenda Delgado. By merging the existing "Background" section with the existing lead the result could be a short biographical section about Brenda Delgado. A similar short biographical section about Kendra Hatcher can also introduce the victim, as well as a short biographical section about Dr. Ricardo "Ricky" Paniagua and his relationships with both women and how they came about. Then introduce the setting up of the murder for hire conspiracy before detailing the murder itself. This should be in chronological order, which is the reverse of being discovered during the police investigation after the murder that is currently set out in the article. The remainder of the article, detailing the arrest and trial of the other perpetrators and the flight of Delgado and her subsequent extradition and trial can then be told, probably with minimal rewriting, other than being more chronological. Renaming the article should probably be done sooner, rather than later, so that other editors are not confused by the rewrite. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 06:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I think I got everything you mentioned. Should be good now. There really outta be a template for FBI Fugitives given that most articles on them are written as biographies and most nominations for deletion from what I could see end up just keeping the articles as is. DigitalPhantoms (talk) 12:56, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DigitalPhantoms: Thanks for those changes. They have significantly improved the article. There are still some places where the article is a little vague or unclear. Not being familiar with the US occupational education system, I am somewhat puzzled by the reference to "Sanford-Brown"; to me there are some additional words or a word needed to describe what sort of place of learning Sanford-Brown" is. Also, what year did Delgado start to study there and did she graduate before the murder, or not? Saying "in her 30s" gives a 10-year band for what is probably a one to three year course. Also the article is disjointed and somewhat unclear on if the FBI placing her on the Most Wanted list, offering a reward, or both, prompted Delgado to flee to Mexico, or if it was her fleeing that resulted in the FBI taking action? Although that is a minor thing, as she appears to have been on the FBI list for only a couple of days before being apprehended in Mexico. I am not sure how these issues are best addressed as further research and sources may be needed.
As to a template for FBI Fugitives, there is already one for Fugitives wanted by India but that looks like it goes at the bottom of the relevant biographical article. I think is what you are looking for is an infobox. There is a template for Infobox criminal that can possibly be pressed into service for wanted suspects (criminals?). The issue with these articles being kept is the question of does being on a wanted list make the wanted person notable or does it make the crime(s) they are wanted for notable? This probably warrants a separate discussion about the notability of wanted people. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 23:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cameron Dewe sanford-brown is just the university he went to that has many disciplines. it was just a general reference to the college.
Nobody gave exacts of when she joined the course or dropped out. However, from the given info, she started the course, the relationship broke apart, she then dropped out to focus on stalking. I'll add clarification.
Her fleeing is what put her on the FBI list since she went to Mexico, which led to an award being out out. As stated in the article, she ran because her accomplices were arrested. Fleeing is a main reason the FBI put people on the list, but I can be even clearer. DigitalPhantoms (talk) 00:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DigitalPhantoms: Thanks for the explanations. Living in a country that is located on the other side of the globe and having a single national police force, the US (and the rest of the world, except Australia) are distant lands far across the oceans. The FBI and other such agencies are often little more than a jumble of letters in this country. As a result, I may pick up on things that need clarification because I am not making the same assumptions as other readers might be making. Hopefully this is a good thing. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cameron Dewe Ya, the US has so many types of police. local city police, county sheriff (which are just multiple cities), then state police (which mostly consist of highway patrols or a general state wide police agency, which is rare), then federal agencies focused that sometimes focuses on specific types of crimes. the FBI handles crimes that go across multiple states and sometimes international. US Marshall's focus on fugitives. Drug Enforcement Agnecy (DEA) focuses on national and international drug crimes. Secret Servive handles finances crimes like forgery along with protecting the president. National Security Agency (NSA) deals with cyber crimes. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deals with border and illegal immigration, Naval Criminal Investigative Services (NCIS), which deals with crimes dealing with the Navy. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) handles terrorism. last but not least, the Central Intelligence Agnecy (CIA) handles uhh well spy stuff. DigitalPhantoms (talk) 00:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DigitalPhantoms: Over 18,000 law enforcement agencies was the last figure I heard. New Zealand doesn't even have that many police officers, who still seem to be able to do everything without even (routinely) carrying a gun. An armed police officer is newsworthy in this country! This puts a different perspective on the rest of the world. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
