Talk:Multiple system atrophy

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ICD-9 and ICD-10 Codes

I din't change the "infobox" with ICD-9 and ICD-10 codes, but don't understand the significance of the "Name:" in that box. This is neither the "name" of the ICD-9 code nor the name of the disease this article about. So what is it? --Sjsilverman 02:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

That's what the condition is called in ICD-10 [1]. But I've made the change to "Multiple system atrophy" so it matches the article name. --Arcadian 02:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Olivopontocerebellar atrophy

This article states that the term "Olivopontocerebellar atrophy" is obsolete. Wikipedia has had an article for Olivopontocerebellar atrophy since 15 December 2004, and I'm trying to figure out if we should treat it like Shy-Drager syndrome (maintained only as a historical entry). Any thoughts? --Arcadian 16:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The term "Multiple system atrophy" encompasses (replaces) the terms "Olivopontocerebellar atrophy (OPCA)", "Shy-Drager syndrome", and "Striatonigral degeneration" based on similar pathological findings and frequent overlapping clinical symptoms. Reference: ACNR Jan/Feb 2004; vol. 3 (no. 6): pp. 5-10. 67.68.248.79 (talk · contribs)

We are aware of that. The question is whether seperate entries should be maintained for obsolete terms for historical interest. Please review Bright's disease. JFW | T@lk 04:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The Olivopontocerebellar atrophy article seems to refer to hereditary forms as well, and these are not part of MSA. Robert Treat (talk) 04:45, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Etiology?

Even if compleletely unknown, there must be some speculation and in any case some statement is certainly needed. 74.78.162.229 (talk) 13:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is that the current working theory is that there is a genetic predisposition (non-hereditary) that is activated by some sort of enviornmental, viral or bacterial "event". Since so many of the neurons in the affected areas have to be damaged before symptoms appear it is possible that the neurons begin dying very early in life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.167.13 (talk) 15:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Onset/Diagnosis: Two NIH sites

NIDS site states: "MSA affects both men and women, primarily in their 50s." http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/msa/msa.htm Medline Plus Dictionary states "MSA develops gradually and is most often diagnosed in men older than 60." I realize that these two statements aren't logically inconsistent, but, taken by themselves, would lead the reader to different conclusions. Anyone know if both are correct? --Sjsilverman (talk) 03:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

All I can think of is that perhaps MSA is slightly easier to dissociate in men from Parkinson's disease because of the early presentation of erectile dysfunction, whereas you have to go on orthostatic hypotension etc. in women? Either way, I don't think there are enough studies to say conclusively one way or the other. Let me have a little dig through the recently published NNIPS study and add that in. --PaulWicks (talk) 13:54, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

what other diseases are misdiagnosed as MSA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.211.36.253 (talk) 21:14, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Merging in Shy-Drager syndrome

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I agree we should do the merge, the Shy-Drager syndrome article is a tiny little stub and an obsolete term. --PaulWicks (talk) 15:20, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Do the merge, but have a section on this page devoted to Shy-Drager. Also have a re-direct from the Shy-Drager page to this one, just as Striatonigral degeneration does. I removed the wiki brackets from the latter because it simply re-directs back toward this page.

My interest in this is more than academic, as my dad passed away from this disease May 3. See info on my dad here and here--Robert Treat (talk) 22:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC).

My husband suffers from MSA. I agree with the second statement, merge the Shy-Drager page, have a section here devoted to Shy-Drager, and have a re-direct from Shy-Drager to MSA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.167.13 (talk) 15:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cause of death

I think the article should outline the specific causes of death that arise from this disease. - Shiftchange (talk) 05:39, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

It's been 8 years since you posted your comment. I added causes of death to the article. Science and understanding of MSA has developed since the first autopsy for MSA in 2005/2006. P37307 (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Link to a Multiple System Atrophy (MSA) information site

I created an maintain a web site on MSA. It contains information on MSA with links to other sites, but its primary raison d'etre was to provide a diary style record of someone going through the phases of MSA.

I have been asked by the major on line support group not to let this web site disappear.

As I have removed the web counter, I no longer know how many hits I get but I do know from emails received that the site is visited regularly.

When I type "multiple system atrophy" into Google, the Wikipedia web page is the first entry displayed and my web site at www.surfcoastwombat.com is the second entry displayed.

I believe that there is a case for a link on your page to my web site and I think the email below which I have copied and pasted into this message shows why.

I will shortly be adding a link on my pages to the Wikipedia entry.

Regards John Cummings patricia@surfcoastwombat.com

Surfcoastwombat (talk) 21:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I have removed the pasted email which, while touching, absolutely does not belong here. The web site looks useful enough that I myself would not revert the link, although I can't guarantee that nobody else will. On behalf of readers there are a couple of changes you could make that would make me more comfortable linking there: (1) Get rid of the flashing. Flashing stuff on web pages is horrible, as it constantly distracts attention from anything else. (2) Use a more readable font. The one used is attractive, but makes it too difficult to get the words. Regards, Looie496 (talk) 21:57, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, we can't put a link to that site on the basis of WP:EL, the External Links policy at Wikipedia. Otherwise I would also have added my own company's MSA community at PatientsLikeMe by now! Best wishes, --PaulWicks (talk) 11:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of difference in prevalence between men and women

A 2001 article in Molecular Pathology is cited in the last sentence of the Prevalence section to support the proposition that "Some believe that the higher ratio may be due to greater environmental exposure to putative toxins in men, or difference in endogenous protective factors (hormonal) in women." In fact, the only reference to this theory in the cited article is as follows:

A male predominance of 1.4 : 1 was reported by Quinn in a review of 231 pathologically confirmed MSA cases.14 If confirmed, this observation may have aetiological relevance. For example, there may be greater environmental exposure to putative toxins in men, or endogenous protective factors (hormonal perhaps) in women.

(emphasis added) Burn DJ, Jaros E. Multiple system atrophy: cellular and molecular pathology. Mol Pathol 2001;54:419 – 426.

This passing reference in an article on molecular pathology is, on its face, speculation that is merely intended to suggest how disparities in prevalence could have possible "aetiological relevance." Nothing in the article suggests that the authors or anyone else believe this to be the case. I've therefore deleted. --Federalist51 (talk) 00:20, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

A parallel project on Wikiversity?

I am currently involved with a few others on a learning project on the science behind Parkinson's disease on Wikiversity - see V:Portal:The_Science_Behind_Parkinson's. If any of the contributors to the wikipedia MSA page would like to join us developing the Wikiversity project you would be more than welcome.

But this note is really to ask if anyone would be interested in starting a wikiversity learning project of a similar nature on the science behind MSA. I envision it would, too, attempt to follow the research on MSA as it progresses and discuss the significance of new results and the issues raised.

Please drop me a note on my talk page either here, Droflet (talk) 10:10, 8 May 2013 (UTC), or preferably on wikiversity - V:User_talk:Droflet

"There is no remission from the disease." (a line in Prognosis)

I am not trained in medicine or any sub-field thereof, but this line just sounds overly short, blunt, and harsh to me (even considering that MSA is in fact a terminal illness). It's like typing "YOU ARE DEAD" in big letters. Could it at least be reworded as "The disease is terminal" or some variant? Admiral.Mercurial (talk) 11:38, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

external links

Hi, Ozzie10aaaa, not sure why you removed the external links from this article, as this is one place where they are deemed to be appropriate. Were they in some way flawed? Let me know, as I just replaced them in the relevant "External links" section.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Quisqualis,so...if we go to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles#External links it indicates Don't use external links...to web-based or email-based support groups for patients, professionals, or other affected people (even if run by a charitable organization)...(will post on talk/article as well)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 02:44, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I see your logic here. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it would have saved us time if your edit summary had briefly mentioned support groups. Thanks.--Quisqualis (talk) 05:12, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Saxitoxin from Dinoflagellates is the cause of MS and MSA!!

How can you know Saxitoxin is a cause of MS and MSA?

1. Because it is well known among the best saxitoxin-researchers in my country (Sweden) since a few years back. And I was told I was going to get MS (Multiple Sclerosis) or MSA (Multiple System Atrophy) by one of them when I was saxitoxin-poisoned. I did not believe in this but 1,5 years later I was severely sick in MSA.

2. And it is well known there was an outbreak of MS on the Orkney-islands when a group of British soldiers were stationed there. And what do they have there? Yes, Dinoflagelates in the sea which makes Saxitoxin which in turn poisons mussels. Then must the soldiers have taught the islanders how to cook and eat sea-mussels, and then followed the MS-outbreak of course.

3. And because it is well known that the orthodox Jews don’t get MS. One of the forbidden foodstuff for the orthodox Jews is shellfish that includes sea-mussels which can survive very high concentrations of Saxitoxin because they have ten times thicker neural-threads than other animals and therefor can get very poisonous to humans. Because it is noncoucher food this means the jews have known this for thousends of years as well as the islanders of the Orkneyislands before they were tought to eat clams.

4. Also MS is an autoimmune disease that attacks the myelin and MSA is an autoimmune disease that attacks the oligodendrocyte-cells, which makes the myelin. It is known that autoimmune diseases can be started by toxins and since these two diseases are so closely related it is also logical they can have the same cause.

Well I also know this for several other reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A04:AE0F:FC00:E:0:0:0:A19 (talk) 16:57, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Saxitoxin has been starting MS and MSA for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions of years in the future and this has been and will be a fact for the same time-span, and I have learned this the hard way. It was proven to me by the reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torbj01 (talk • contribs) 13:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.200.157.18 (talk)

Wikipedia does not consist of what its editors "know to be true", but of what reliable secondary sources have to say. Please cite some.--Quisqualis (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Why is reference 7 listed as an unreliable medical source?

Neuropathology and Applied Neurobiology is a highly respected, very well-cited journal with an impact factor of more than 8 and has been ranked as a Q1 journal in all relevant categories for which it is rated for more than a decade (of particular note: Neurology, Clinical Neurology, Medical Physiology). https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=17990&tip=sid&clean=0

If this is an "unreliable medical source", I'm not sure what would constitute a reliable source. 129.78.56.139 (talk) 00:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Add an advocacy section?

Would it make sense to add an advocacy section similar to what is on the Parkinson's main entry under "Society and culture"?

March is MSA awareness month, October 2 is World MSA Day, there are a number of organizations working on behalf of the MSA community--The MSA Trust (UK), The MSA Coalition (US), Defeat MSA, and so on. Eed1121 (talk) 07:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)