Talk:Mukaradeeb wedding party massacre

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Creation of a new article

Mukaradeeb is not a massacre, or a war crime. It is a town in Iraq.
So I moved Mukaradeeb here, and tried to change Mukaradeed to a town article.

Problems

The article was bad. No references, lots of quotes but no links to articles. Also poorly laid out.
That being said it was a factual event that no one denies, just the reason why is disputed.
Unfortunately the articles I briefly glimpsed at were basically he said she said in nature.

US forces

Pulled up weapons etc. Which are not hard to find. Also hard evidence is pretty tough to find period.

Local

Possibly anti-american to begin with, they certainly are now. Evidence is in doubt, and often fabricated in the Middle East. The videotape appears to be taken at face value, but now is in doubt to the authenticity.

Not a CSI in sight

Collecting evidence, getting facts that people feel comfortable with is hard enough in a modern city with a lot of techs around. In a remote village in Iraq almost impossible.

Conclusion

We have to update this situation with facts, and try to limit the POV of supposed witnesses that saw everything at 3am in the morning (with no lights). And since the US uses night vision, you know they didnt light up there units.
Obviously the loss of life is real, but pretty much everything else is in dispute. Greroja 16:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC) Last note, I didn't do a lot to this article except suffle around some of the lines, create catagories, and added {{Fact}} where I think its appropriate. Work needs to be done here!Greroja 16:08, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

POV

There is a serious POV issue here in that the opening sentence sites this as a massacre, while Mr. Kimmitt said fire from the ground was returned. If the wedding party did indeed have weapons and were shooting at the Americans, this would not be a "massacre." More facts are needed for this article to be kept.--Fresh 23:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes because a bunch of reckless Iraqis decided to take a break from wedding celebrations to shoot at helicopters. It could be considered a massacre of sorts, just as the Boston massacre wasn't a huge mass murder, yet it wasn't like it led to a mass grave or killed hundreds of people. this incident was a war crime regardless of the exact number of deaths, and should be addressed as such. 64.231.224.154 01:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I also see no POV issue with the opening. There was a massacre, the only thing really disputed is if it was due to incompetance or straight up murder. The article certainly needs work, but what is currently there is good and NPOV. 81.151.124.255 19:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC) ELMO[reply]

Importance Tag

I removed the notability tag from this article for several reasons: 1) When adding this tag the least one could do is to have the due diligence to add to the talk page regarding why you feel this topic is not notable. 2) This article is at least as notable as the Columbine shootings. It might not have been played out on CNN as much, but I argue that Wikipedia shouldn't take it's cues from the sensationalized US media as to what is notable. 3) I concede that the article might need some shoring up with respect to referencing published sources, but taken on it's face the article chronicles a notable event.Super j dynamite 05:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The AP Video

The description I inserted earlier was an attempt to summarize the AP report of the footage. Removing "refutes" is justified, but the video does in fact show a wedding.

The video shows the bride arriving in a white pickup truck and quickly being ushered into a house by a group of women. Outside, men recline on brightly colored silk pillows, relaxing on the carpeted floor of a large goat-hair tent as boys dance to tribal songs.
The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah.
The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers' laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe (search), finger worry beads (search) and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding.

--Carwil (talk) 02:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I cartegorised it as "scandal"

If it wasn't REALLY a scandal, then remove it. --84.234.60.154 (talk) 14:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

It's not clear what happened. --84.234.60.154 (talk) 01:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think. (Well, did investigation end?) --84.234.60.154 (talk) 01:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

POV check

I've added the POV check due to a clear violation of NPOV in this article. Legitimate sources indicate that women and children were slaughtered indiscriminately. Viriditas (talk) 14:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect

I redirected Wedding party massacre to this page for obvious reasons, and renamed it, using the Haditha killings as a guide. Uenm (talk) 03:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've merged the histories. Be sure to use the "move" button whenever moving a page. –xeno^talk 00:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved the page back to Wedding party massacre because it has more than 130 times as many Google search results as Mukaradeeb killings. --Joshua Issac (talk) 21:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nothwithstanding the new disambiguation page (Wedding party massacre), Josuha Isaac's point and previous discussion remains correct on the title. I'm moving to Mukaradeeb wedding party massacre.--Carwil (talk) 18:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]