Talk:Morrie Arnovich

Morrie Arnovich has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: September 3, 2021. (Reviewed version).

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Possible copyright problem[edit]

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Morrie Arnovich/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 16:07, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Arnovich played in the Major League Baseball between 1936 and 1946" - drop the "the". Pretty much never used when referring to the MLB
- Fair enough - probably worth noting that I'm not super familiar with some of the intracies of baseball. Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Playing as an outfielder and line drive hitter he" - recommend rephrasing, as you're not comparing two like things. An outfielder is a position, while a line driver hitter is a style of play
- Sure. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"In 1936, he hit .327 with 19 home runs and 109 runs batted in (RBI)." - Clarify that these are his minor league stats for the year
- Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For the above, the slightly different url [1] appears to be the one you want for the source, as that url supports the minor league stats, but I'm not seeing that in the currently cited b-ref url.
- Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He tied for the league lead in home runs and was one RBI from the best in the league" - where is this in the ref? Couldn't find it but I may have missed it
- Removed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He played his first matches in Major League Baseball, where he made .313 batting average over 13 games" - the word "matches" isn't used for American baseball
- games? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He played his first matches in Major League Baseball, where he made .313 batting average over 13 games" - recommend making it a little clearer when in the season he transitioned to the majors, as the minors-majors transition isn't very clear
- Added the year. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"a third of all outfielders in the league" - I'm struggling to find where this is in the source, and that the league only had 54 outfield assists in the season seems a bit implausible
- Removed - no idea if it's true. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He also led all Northern League left fielders in double plays, with five, and in range factor/game, at 2.58" - I am highly confused by this sentence. It's after the 1938 season, but he didn't play in the Northern League then. Also not seeing where b-ref supports the league leading - the site usually puts league-leading numbers in bold type, but I'm not seeing any bolded numbers in that section for Arnovich. Also a bit confused on the numbers - bref shows the 5 double plays as being for 1937, and it has a range factor of 2.59 for him for 1938.
- I think things just got combined and confused. The 5 double plays have already been mentioned. Removed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He also led all Northern League left fielders in putouts, with 314, and in range factor/game, at 2.47.[1] He made the Northern League All-Star team in his best season, 18th in the MVP voting" - Again, the Phillies weren't in the Northern League
- Removed Northern League mention. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He also led all Northern League left fielders in putouts, with 314, and in range factor/game, at 2.47" - I have b-ref open, and it's showing 335 and 2.61?
- Updated stats. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"though he continued to hit for solid contact (.284);" - indicate that this .284 number is for his time with the Reds only (he hit .199 with the Phillies and .250 total for 1940, per b-ref)
- No worries. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and his lack of power was not good for an outfielder." - This is true, but you need a source other than just a stats table to back this up
- Working I see you've added a couple refs down below, I'll see if it's mentioned at in there. If not - I'll remove Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've gone ahead and removed this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:40, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and had a .280 batting average in 85 games" - specify that this is for the 1941 season
- Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:25, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Clarify when he entered the US Army
- Added year Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:25, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He made his only World Series appearance that season" - you can also add that his team won, and that Arnovich went 0-1 and only appeared in one game per [2].
- Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:25, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"In 2010 he was ranked ninth in career batting average among Jewish major league baseball players of all-time.[12]" - recommend removing, as this is a rather old statistic, unless you can find a newer update of this.
- I disagree to a point on this one. This is only 11 years ago, for a sport that has been going for over a hundred years. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:25, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Can we get page numbers for the book sources?
- I have added for a couple of them. There's two that I'm struggling to find a copy for. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:37, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that the main part is a bit stats-heavy and narrative light. (although that's sometime unavoidable, see Brooks Pounders, my last baseball bio GA, which has that problem unavoidable). The SABR bio has some stuff that could help. For instance, it says that he had seven straight hits in 1937 (which is quite the accomplishment). It also gives some more details about his All Star honor and some drama related to it, gives the amount of cash he was sold to the Giants for, etc.
- Sure, Working, I'll take a look at what you have added. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:37, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've added a few items from this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Arnovich is buried in the Hebrew Cemetery in Superior, Wisconsin" - this is the exact same wording as the SABR source
- I've reworded ever so slightly, per WP:LIMITED Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:25, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"It was reported in the Superior Evening Telegram in 1949 that Arnovich, who had managed in the Cubs minor league organization, had signed on as a referee in the new National Basketball Association" - cited to the SABR source, but only the managing in the Cubs system is supported by the source
Exact dates of first and last major league appearances are present and uncited in the infobox, but do not appear in the text
- Added to prose for debut. Removed final appearance from infobox until I can find an RS. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:37, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
in the lead, specify the year he was an All Star
- Done. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:37, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of the categories currently fail WP:CATV, as the Selma and Hutchinson categories aren't supported by the text
- Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link Johnny Rizzo
- Linked. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
" The Big Book of Jewish Sports Heroes: An Illustrated Compendium of Sports History and The 150 Greatest Jewish Sports Stars. SP Books. 2007. ISBN 9781561719075. Archived from the original on January 25, 2021. Retrieved February 16, 2011." - needs the author
- Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Brief bio here that might also prove useful
- Added a piece, not sure there was all that much that could be done here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a source that might help with getting some detail for his managerial career
- My newspaper.com license has expired, and that clip continues onto the next page. I've asked for it to be renewed, but might take a couple days. I'll add what I can from this clipping Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Right, I took a look, but this didn't really help. It's more just someone saying how he didn't last a full year. I think covering that he managed those farm teams is enough, going into specifics (without them winning anything) would be additional weight. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:27, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This may also prove useful
- There wasn't much, but I've added something. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:40, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A decent bit of work here to do, but a good start on this. Hog Farm _Talk 05:38, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- This all seems very doable. I'll take a look, thanks for the review. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:36, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Hi Hog Farm. I've covered the above, although when my newspaper.com access returns I'll check out the additional page I found. The only other thing is the page numbers for the two book sources. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:40, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - Let me know what you think, Hog Farm Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:27, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Lee Vilenski: - I still have concern with the fragment who had managed in the Cubs minor league organization, had signed on as a referee in the new National Basketball Association.[2] . The ref doesn't support the NBA bit, the intro isn't necessary because you've already stated that he was a minor league manager, and it's a stand-alone sentence fragment. I think that's all that's outstanding from me. Hog Farm _Talk 14:15, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        Hi Hog Farm, I have removed the sentence, and covered the bit about basketball that is in the cite in the sentence before. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:48, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]