Talk:Mononoke (TV series)

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BetacommandBot 07:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mo No No Ke

The title is clearly written as "Mo No No Ke".—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 00:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right, but 'mononoke' is just an ordinary Japanese word. That is simply a logo done with interesting typography choices, and does not affect the name of the show or the way we write in on Wikipedia. It's the same as putting a title in all capital letters because the logo did. Doceirias (talk) 03:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Medicine Seller Conditions To Sheath the Sword

It is form, truth, and regret.

Not shape, truth, and reasoning.

X27 (talk) 19:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)X27[reply]

What's your source on that? Either translation is within the range of possible meanings and connotations; I forget if we were matching the Goblin Cat translation or not.

Bake Neko is ghost cat not goblin cat. My source is my Japanese class textbook. :) And I should say shape and form is about the same thing. I shouldn't have said it isn't shape, truth, and reasoning. Just form, truth, and regret sounds more accurate or more fluent. X27 (talk) 20:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)X27[reply]

I was thinking couldn't we change this: "To use the sword, the Medicine Seller must find the "Katachi" (form), "Makoto" (truth), and "Kotowari" (regret) of the mononoke he wishes to exorcise"

Because technically to exorcise the demon his sword has those conditions to be unsheathed. Shouldn't we kinda explain the sword has conditions before he can exorcise the demon. Something along the lines of: "Before he sheaths his sword there are certain conditions he must find....."

Or is it all right the way it is?X27 (talk) 22:21, 20 May 2008 (UTC)X27[reply]

I'm a professional translator, and these are the official translations. Bake is no more ghost than it is goblin; both are completely inaccurate translations, but if you must translate the word, Goblin is probably closer than ghost. If you aren't fluent in the language, I really can't recommend trying to correct the work of professionals by waving a dictionary around. Form and shape are synonyms to begin with; kotowari is a very complicated word with no direct translation in English; regret and reasoning are both equally accurate given the context of the show, but I'd also give the edge to reasoning since it really deals with exactly why the mononoke is acting up. I'm going to change the article text back, since I'm pretty sure that was the official translation on the Ayakashi: Goblin Cat DVD.

Also, I'm unable to find any dictionary definition of kotowari that would actually be regret, although I agree is it a possible translation from the context. Doceirias (talk) 22:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ghost and goblins are not the same thing. Ghost are transparent. Goblins are apparent. Goblins are mischievous creatures. Ghost are the supernatural reflection of a physical form. Ghost,unlike goblins,can form with human emotions. In the story Bake Neko. The cat's ghost or spirit has formed with a human emotion. A human emotion of hatred or a grudge. Therefore the cat is a ghost. It makes more sense Ghost Cat. A goblin cannot do that. That is why I corrected my statement above. I said I shouldn't have said it isn't shape or reasoning. I said it sounded more fluent and more accurate form, truth, and regret. I can speak a pretty good amount of Japanese and understand a pretty good amount of the language. Actually last month my Japaneses class went on a field trip to Japan. I understand and could talk to them in Japanese. I watch most of my anime in raw now a days. :)X27 (talk) 23:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)X27[reply]

You're using some other definition of goblin than I would. Mischievous my ass. They're far more aggressively evil than ghosts. Either way, I think translating mythological terms is always a mistake because they fundamentally don't line up. However, the term was officially translated as Goblin Cat, which is why we use that term here. It's accurate enough, given the inherent lack of overlap in the mythologies.

Again, the terms you've suggested are perfect valid translations (forgive me for making assumptions about your ability; when people mention their dictionaries, they usually aren't very fluent) and I have no problem with them (I prefer form, but I'd translate kotowari as fixation) - but they aren't the terms used in the official translation, and the official terms are equally valid. On Wikipedia we always default to the official translations; if Mononoke comes out here, and gets a different translation, we'll switch to that, but for now it's really splitting hairs. Doceirias (talk) 00:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about the mythological thing. If you translated kotowari into fixation it wouldn't make sense. Because its not what the demon is fixated on or even the human is fixated on. Its the human side of the story if you understand what I mean. He is basically asking them to tell their truth and their guilt. Therefore kotowari as regret. Because humans gave birth to the emotion, the emotion gave birth to the demon, and in return the demon uses the emotion to help the one who gave birth to it. But that is my silly little view on it.X27 (talk) 01:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)X27[reply]

I never quite understood why people thought "kotowari" meant "regret". My Daijirin, the dictionary rated only after the Kôjien in Japan, gives as a definition: 1)物事の筋道。条理。道理。2)わけ。理由。Where does that imply "regret" or "fixation"? It means "reason", or "reasoning" if we want to stretch a little. --82.225.152.61 (talk) 00:52, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why was it moved from (anime) to (TV series)?

I thought Mononoke (anime) was fine... Stevefis (talk) 11:51, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because there is more than one "Mononoke anime" (the other one being Princess Mononoke). It's the same reason Ayakashi is a disambiguation page: because there are three anime series named (or partially named) "Ayakashi".--Nohansen (talk) 15:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]