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This article was nominated for deletion on 27 September 2024. The result of the discussion was Speedy Keep.
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Given that this is an article about an individual who known for one event how do people feel about renaming this as Murder of Theo van Gogh? This could easily be refactored after an article rename by deleting the lead and the Early life section which is poorly sourced and then writing a new lead of one paragraph. TarnishedPathtalk10:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath I have less strong feelings about this now that it isn't under threat of deletion. I would marginally prefer it stay on Bouyeri, for reasons I will write about later (mostly how the sources write about it and in effort to reduce duplication across pages) but, eh. Right now, this article is in quite poor shape, so I will try to fix it up and find sources for everything, which will let me get a better look at the sources, after which I may have a different opinion. This article suffers from having largely been written in the 2000s, when inline citation requirements were not enforced, but I have always found this one quite interesting so I don't mind spending some time fixing it up however it is formatted. Move aside, I do think this what is included in the article as to his early life is relevant information, and would be so even if it was an article on the murder (as event background), so I will find sources for that as well. PARAKANYAA (talk) 11:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've got this on my watchlist now so I'll have a look for some additional sources when I have time (currently 9:30pm at night in Melbourne, Australia). I came across this article as an IP had made an edit request at Talk:List of Islamist terrorist attacks to include the murder in List of Islamist terrorist attacks. I've had to tell them no because the event doesn't have its own stand alone article as required by the inclusion criteria of the list. TarnishedPathtalk11:29, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath I've expanded the article a bit, still a lot more to go. After looking at the sources, IMO, there is enough scholarship and retrospective journalism on this event to maintain 3 articles (Bouyeri, Murder, van Gogh). This was a very notorious and very well covered crime, with numerous academic and journalistic retrospectives, including several full length books, focusing on multiple facets of the event (one of which is Bouyeri), plus there are additional factors like the group background, the prison activities, etc. Whether we want to do it that way is up for debate (admittedly I think that is my preferred solution, and if we were to make a comprehensive article it would require it). PARAKANYAA (talk) 17:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the title Murder of Theo van Gogh is sysop protected for repeated recreation by a sockpuppet a decade ago so whether we move or make a whole new article we may need to get that sorted lol PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:10, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've messaged the admin who protected enquiring if there was anything in any of the previously deleted versions which may be useful as starting material for a draft. TarnishedPathtalk02:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath I've been meaning to go about writing the murder article sometime, I gathered a lot of the sources. Do you think I should just start it as a draft and request it be unsalted once it's generally satisfactory? PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA Sorry I should have provided you an update previously, but I completely forgot about it. Can you email me so I can forward you an email that Bishonen wrote to me.
Ps, yes I'd recommend starting in draft and dealing with the salting later once the article is good enough to demonstrate independent notability from both the Bouyeri and van Gogh articles. TarnishedPathtalk06:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
