Talk:Mike Munchak

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CFB All-American

@Sergio Skol I noticed you removed CFB All-American from his Infobox, with the summary: "He was selected Second-team All-American by NEA, which was not an official selector." So should we only be including official selectors? Is that documented somewhere? Because I've been updating 1985 College Football All-America Team and I've been going through and updating all of the individual articles with their All-American status.

For guidance I've been relying on Category:All-American college football players, which makes no mention of official selectors. I've been adding players to the category for the un-official selectors as well (first-team only, as specified in the category introduction).

Thanks Jb45424 (talk) 23:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I mean, that's why there are official selectors. If there weren't, I could announce my own All-America Team and then display it on the player Infobox, because some selector (official or not) named him All-American.

I know it may be some dumb, but think about it. Why add no official selections? Everyone can publish their own All-America Team, then use it as the ref.

Example, the NFL doesn't have any official selector for the All-Pro Team, that's why we add all of them. Nonetheless, the NCAA does have official ones. So IMO we only should add selections recognized by the NCAA. Sergio Skol (talk) 23:10, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Then why are we including the unofficial selectors on the yearly pages? If someone is named to an All-America team, official or not, then that makes them an All-American. Your example of someone self-publishing a team is a stretch, we're only including legitimate national publications on the yearly pages. I checked Template:Infobox college football player, and again, no mention of official selectors.

If you want to limit the individual articles to official selectors only, then it needs to be documented somewhere. Jb45424 (talk) 23:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

@Cbl62, @Cumberland Mills

Can you please weigh in on this? Jb45424 (talk) 12:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

The annual AA team pages can and should include all reputable and sourced AA selectors, including second and third team selections. By doing this, we can gauge exactly how valid a claim to AA status may be. The infobox is a different issue IMO. If I were making the rules, I'd probably limit the infobox to first-team selections. Cbl62 (talk) 12:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

What about the body of the article? If a player makes an All-America team, even if unofficial, isn't that something that should be mentioned in the body of the article? And if it's included in the body, shouldn't it be included in the infobox? Jb45424 (talk) 13:49, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I think a second-team AA honor should definitely be in the body of a biographical article, but not everything in the article needs to be in the infobox. My personal view would be to allow editors greater flexibility in determining what should be in the infobox on a case-by-case basis. That is, for a player with few notable accomplishments that are infobox worthy, I would include a second-team AA selection. My view is a minority, however, and there seems to be strong consensus to have hard and strict rules as to which honors belong in the infobox. Cbl62 (talk) 17:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I think this can be tough distinction to make, and I basically have two minds about it. In this particular case, the AA status has been given by NEA, which I would personally consider to be reputable. However, it is not official according to the NCAA. Because it is unofficial, I would omit it from the infobox (although I would not have an issue with including it in the body). I think listing unofficial selections in the infobox would cause more effort to be spent on worrying about which selectors are reputable and which are not. In my opinion, the NCAA has already done this, so it is easier to simply abide by their "official" choices. Cumberland Mills (talk) 20:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

No doubt NEA is reputable. They were actually recognized as "official" for most years; not sure why or when they lost that status. Cbl62 (talk) 23:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

What about Category:All-American college football players? There is nothing in the description that mentions official selectors, so are we in agreement that first-team honorees from unofficial selectors should be included? Jb45424 (talk) 23:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)