Talk:Michelle Kaufmann

First contact

I am Michelle Kaufmann. I have been trying to revise a few sections of this page. Not because they are not flattering, but rather because they are untrue. There was no bankruptcy. That is completely false. The company closed, but there was no bankruptcy, so that title should be deleted. I do not work with mkDesigns or Blu Homes, so that part should be deleted. I did not add the 5 eco principles, and another company is not wanting me to talk about 5 eco principles (and they are probably the ones to have added it to this page), so I request that part be deleted. It is not unflattering, just not needed.

I am barely notable, and request the entire page just be deleted completely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.141.18 (talk) 16:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Please review Wikipedia:Contact us/Article problem/Factual error (from subject). Thank you.   — Jeff G.  ツ 17:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

• Gents, we urgently need to make credible progress on this - or else give up and nuke it. It is a pretty poor article, it has a lot of guff in it and the sourcing is not great, mainly articles about her work and not substantial biographical coverage. Guy (Help!) 15:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Guy, there are ladies involved too. Please remember that Wikipedia is a work in progress. The AfD debate on this article was closed, and the result was "Keep". The subject of this BLP, Michelle Kaufmann, has agreed to assist in improving the article in a consensus mode with other editors, in full compliance with Wikipedia policies. Due to her personal schedule, she asked for a slight delay. You will see progress on this article very soon. Cullen328 (talk) 16:31, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Discussion of content

Content is best discussed on this page. I am copying from the AFD to get us started.   — Jeff G.  ツ 00:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: This is the architect Michelle Kaufmann, subject of this wiki page. Someone brought the current state of the wiki page to my attention a few days ago, and i saw what I believed to be violations on the policies of living people, so I tried to edit the page to what I believed to be truthful information. I did so without reading the various relevant polices on neutral editing. I am now learning so much more on this :) and am consulting with a more experience neutral editor (Cullen328). I am committed to helping gain consensus rather than just doing things "my way" (although "my way" is just so darn tempting). If I can help in anyway, please let me know. Although, the page looks truthful and accurate at this point. Otherwise, if deleting the page completely makes sense to you all, that is fine with me. (and thanks, Jeff G for the heads up on the link from my site to the wiki page. We just deleted it in case you choose to delete this page all together.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkmichelle (talk • contribs) 17:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
  • The fact that the link was deleted is good enough confirmation to me that this really is Kaufmann. Gigs (talk) 01:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
    • Agreed. Let's move forward on the content issues using subheadings below.   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Alleged bankruptcy

• Ms. Kaufmann (as 98.248.141.18 (talk · contribs)) wrote "There was no bankruptcy. That is completely false. The company closed, but there was no bankruptcy, so that title should be deleted."[1]   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• SPA StephanieCamposR (talk · contribs) wrote the following in these edits, as a new section entitled "Bankruptcy".   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

“ Kaufmann's eco-friendly architecture was widely received by the public but unfortunately her first architectural firm called it quits in 2009, after being open for five years . The close was somewhat shocking given the office's initial promise. The original Michelle Kaufmann Designs studio "grew to include two dozen staffers, operated its own factory outside Seattle and completed more than 40 prefab houses, most of them on the West Coast" . A series of attempts were made to keep the studio going despite some financial drawbacks; but soon it became clear that the turmoil from the recession had hit Kaufmann's company hard. As Kaufmann put it in her blog: "Despite our best efforts, the financial meltdown and plunging home values have caught up with us. The recent closing of a factory partner, as well as the gridlocked lending faced by homeowners, has proved more than our small company can bear." Kaufmann continued working through her client's after that first company had shut-down. She was more than willing to send her remaining client's "in a position to build with other firms, if they choose". In 2010 after having passed the hard times, Kaufmann launched a new design firm. The new Mk Designs now works in collaboration with a sister brand "Blu Homes". ”

• Suggested alternative: rename the section "Transision from Michelle Kaufmann Designs to Michelle Kaufmann Studio" and replace "The new Mk Designs" with "The new firm, Michelle Kaufmann Studio".   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

This is Michelle Kaufmann. Your suggested new title "Transision from Michelle Kaufmann Designs to Michelle Kaufmann Studio" seems accurate. To clarify on the rest: Blu Homes purchased designs by mkDesigns and the name "mkDesigns". They also bought the website www.mkdesigns.com. Michelle Kaufmann consulted with them for 6 months to assist in the transition of those designs to them. However, Michelle Kaufmann and Michelle Kaufmann Studio do not currently work with Blu Homes or mkDesigns. If you notice the sources below to Michelle Kaufmann working with Blu Homes, they are all in the past (early fall 2009) and were soon after they purchased the designs. I can assure you, I no longer work with Blu Homes and haven't for 9 months. If you look at www.michellekaufmann.com on the bio section and "who we work with"(my website and the site for Michelle Kaufmann Studio), you will see no inclusion on working with Blu Homes. Also, thanks everyone for your time and efforts on this. It is all a bit murky and your dedication to providing clarity and good information is highly commendable (and appreciated). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkmichelle (talk • contribs) 17:08, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Blu Homes

• Ms. Kaufmann (as 98.248.141.18 (talk · contribs)) wrote "I do not work with mkDesigns or Blu Homes, so that part should be deleted."[2]   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• SPA StephanieCamposR (talk · contribs) wrote the following in these edits, as a new section entitled "Bankruptcy".   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

“ In 2010 after having passed the hard times, Kaufmann launched a new design firm. The new Mk Designs now works in collaboration with a sister brand "Blu Homes". ”

• Suggested alternative: Replace "Kaufmann launched a new design firm. The new Mk Designs now works in collaboration with a sister brand "Blu Homes"." with "Kaufmann launched a new design firm, Michelle Kaufmann Studio." I have not yet researched secondary sources, but a primary source press release by Michele Perry of Blu Homes dated September 29, 2009 says that Blu Homes acquired the assets of mkDesigns.   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
  • This article had a different take on 2009/09/29, including "Michelle will now serve as a design consultant to Blu Homes and its advisory board" and the following.   — Jeff G.  ツ 00:45, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

“ “I am thrilled the work mkDesigns started will be continued with Blu Homes,” said Michelle Kaufmann. “Blu and I share similar values and by using its extraordinary proprietary technology, Blu can offer Americans across the country a wide range of beautiful, convenient and economical green homes. I am happy to be working with them on a common vision of the future that we can all be proud of.” ”

This is Michelle Kaufmann. Please see the note I just wrote in the section above. Thanks much.

Eco Principles

• Ms. Kaufmann (as 98.248.141.18 (talk · contribs)) wrote "I did not add the 5 eco principles, and another company is not wanting me to talk about 5 eco principles (and they are probably the ones to have added it to this page), so I request that part be deleted. It is not unflattering, just not needed."[3]   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• SPA StephanieCamposR (talk · contribs) wrote the EcoPrinciples section without reference to secondary sources in this edit.   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• SPA SPR781 (talk · contribs) removed what the section had become in this edit, which is fine with me. However, there is still a section "Eco Principles" on Ms. Kaufmann's website homepage.   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Comment: If there is an Eco Principles section on the subject’s webpage, then the wikiarticle does not misrepresent the subject by also having such a section. Also, it is irrelevant whether the subject is currently speaking about Eco Principles, because this is not her speaking: this is an encyclopedia article. And, if she once spoke of and promoted such principles, then it is historically accurate that they should be included here. Kaufmann says, “another company is not wanting me to talk about 5 eco principles.” It is not our role to assist the subject in the writing of an autobiography. Thus, since since this is not autobiography, this wikiarticle does not constitute Kaufmann talking about eco principles. Instead, this is an encyclopedia presenting an historical outline of principles Kaufmann once espoused. Therefore, their inclusion in this article should not engender any issue for her. It is the responsibility of a good encyclopedia to include historical information about its subjects and not just what is current. The Eco Principles section should be re-inserted into the article. — SpikeToronto 05:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it is probable that those principles are copyrighted by someone else. We could make reference to them (difficult without more information about their history), but it would be prudent not to quote them until we have more information about the licensing for them.   — Jeff G.  ツ 16:45, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

One can quote anything, so long one attributes it. Wikiarticles are always filled with quotations. The point is this: At some point in her history, the subject espoused these principles. To not make reference to them could be viewed as whitewashing the subject’s history, which is not our function as encyclopedia writers. Nor is it our obligation to make a wikiarticle conform with the wishes of the living subject of the article. WP:Autobiography says: “Avoid writing or editing an article about yourself, other than to correct unambiguous errors of fact.” [Emphasis added.] It is not an unambiguous error of fact that the subject was once associated with these principles.

I fail to see how it is a copyright issue to say that an architect designs her projects with a view to making them greener, by which is meant energy- and water-conserving, made of materials that minimally impact the planet, and provide healthy living spaces for their occupants. This seems to cover the five principles without actually making reference to trade- or servicemarks with which the subject may no longer be affiliated. I think we are agreed on this point, since you say, “We could make reference to them.” The irony is, one would hope that all architects in the 21st century would design cognizant of these five principles. Thanks! — SpikeToronto 17:17, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Notability

• Ms. Kaufmann (as 98.248.141.18 (talk · contribs)) wrote "I am barely notable, and request the entire page just be deleted completely" 16:14, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[4]   — Jeff G.  ツ 20:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• Ms. Kaufmann (as Mkmichelle (talk · contribs) then wrote "We just deleted [the link from my site to the wiki page] in case you choose to delete this page all together" 17:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[5]   — Jeff G.  ツ 20:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• I think you are notable, but your article needs more work.   — Jeff G.  ツ 20:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
• I agree that Michelle Kaufmann is notable, and I will help improve this article. I've communicated with her to help her better understand Wikipedia policies. I want to commend you, Jeff G, for your constructive contributions here. Cullen328 (talk) 20:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Thank you.   — Jeff G.  ツ 00:29, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Sunset Breezehouse

The article mentions a Sunset Breezehouse® built in 2005, with no details of its location. However, radio ads are currently running for a modular Breezehouse® by Blu Homes,[6] built in July 2012 on a hillside at the northern edge of Healdsburg, California, with guided tour$ from August 3 through September 9, 2012. (See http://www.sunset.com/home/idea-houses/breezehouse-tours-00418000077116/.) This statement should be corrected or clarified and a reference should be supplied. If another project was built in 2005, the sentence should be altered to calling it "a" Sunset Breezehouse instead of "the" Sunset Breezehouse. — Quicksilver^{T @} 17:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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