Talk:Michaël Borremans
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The copyrights on the text about artist Michaël Borremans on Wikipedia as well as the text on ^[1] is owned by Zeno X Gallery - Antwerp. You can find this text on our website as well (http://www.zeno-x.com/artists/borremans/MB_full_frameset.htm -> go to bio). It is free of copyrights and can be used under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. (I will send an email from our zeno-x adress ass well. Koen Van den Brande - Zeno X
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Balenciaga / Sadistic paintings
[edit]This page should be used to reflect his work accurately. Not sugar coat the reality of his disgusting work and most recent scandal with Balenciaga. 2A02:C7C:BE9B:F100:B87A:6131:99A:1F0B (talk) 21:31, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that Wikipedia needs to reflect the actuality, but Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia which is put together by editors who exercise restraint. That being said, IMO the controversy around his work which has arisen alongside the Balenciaga controversy should be reflected in the lede. Boscaswell talk 03:09, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe it's unavoidable, but I think it's best to wait as long as possible for better sources. The few reliable sources that bring up Borremans at all in relation to Balenciaga treat him as very peripheral in the story, and the few things they do mention are errors. It's definitely not Fire from the Sun in the Isabelle Huppert picture, that book is only 80 pages long. It's probably As Sweet as It Gets which has 300 pages. There are no castrated children in any of his paintings. What these articles say is very different from the coverage and interpretations he has received until now. Pretty much all the sources that actually can be used to write the article give a completely different view of what his paintings contain and what they're about. We'll see if this goes any further and what impact it has on his career. I'm writing a new Wikipedia article about another of his paintings right now, perhaps that's a way forward. Ffranc (talk) 11:22, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
- Artnet has published this summary, which gets the book title and other details right. I updated the article based on this and removed the source with the erroneous claims Ffranc (talk) 13:39, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe it's unavoidable, but I think it's best to wait as long as possible for better sources. The few reliable sources that bring up Borremans at all in relation to Balenciaga treat him as very peripheral in the story, and the few things they do mention are errors. It's definitely not Fire from the Sun in the Isabelle Huppert picture, that book is only 80 pages long. It's probably As Sweet as It Gets which has 300 pages. There are no castrated children in any of his paintings. What these articles say is very different from the coverage and interpretations he has received until now. Pretty much all the sources that actually can be used to write the article give a completely different view of what his paintings contain and what they're about. We'll see if this goes any further and what impact it has on his career. I'm writing a new Wikipedia article about another of his paintings right now, perhaps that's a way forward. Ffranc (talk) 11:22, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
- I agree, inclusion of it in the lede is unavoidable. So deleting that entry is not good. I have reinstated it and de-neutered some of the efforts to limit criticism of Borremans in the article. Note that deleting a link which states that he received a flood of criticism on Twitter while changing the text from "many users" to "some users" is not good, either. Boscaswell talk 22:28, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
- We'll see how big of a deal it will be in his reception history when the storm is over and some time has passed. As I said, the material about him published due to the Balenciaga scandal is a very small part of the material that exists about his work, and the new interpretations on Twitter are contrary to the rest of it. Ffranc (talk) 12:33, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
- I agree, inclusion of it in the lede is unavoidable. So deleting that entry is not good. I have reinstated it and de-neutered some of the efforts to limit criticism of Borremans in the article. Note that deleting a link which states that he received a flood of criticism on Twitter while changing the text from "many users" to "some users" is not good, either. Boscaswell talk 22:28, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Boscaswell, please stop adding claims that aren't in the sources. A description from a gallery is not criticism - it's promotion - and the review from Elephant is clearly positive ("Fire from the Sun sits cozily—bloodily, cleverly—on the art history couch next to Goya and Francis Bacon, but the exhibition is not an exercise in appropriation or a closed circuit of art talking to art. Like Red Hand, Green Hand, this exhibition has an intuitive relevance to the time in which it was created and the circumstances in which it first exhibited.") There is no criticism of Fire from the Sun here outside of the indirect, multi-degree connection to the Balenciaga scandal. Elephant associates the children with "what it means to try and erase the past, unsuccessfully". That's tragedy, not cruelty. Please be level-headed about this and stick to what actually can be found in reliable sources. Ffranc (talk) 12:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)