Talk:Mental illness in Middle-earth/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 09:04, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Eewilson (talk · contribs) 03:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Later today (Sunday), I'll get into the details of Criteria 2, 3, and 4. If I request something that conflicts with the Middle-earth Project standards, please let me know. Thanks. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 06:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

@Chiswick Chap The weekend and this week IRL have been busier than I expected. Just letting you know that my lack of input this week is temporary. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 13:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Criterion 1a

• Reword this blurb, make concise: Tolkien fans have discussed what kind of mental illness Gollum might have
  • Edited.
    • Looks good. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Might be a better word than "stated" here: A supervised study by medical students stated that Gollum met many
  • "decided", perhaps. "stated" is a usual form on Wikipedia for "X <produced the written text to the effect that> Y"; "wrote" is also commonly used, but producing a diagnosis isn't really just writing any old thing.
    • Maybe "concluded"? – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)
      • Done. But we're well down among the weeds here.
        • I hear you, and honestly, "concluded" was the word I was trying to think of yesterday that wouldn't come out. Better now. Thanks. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Remove leading "The": The scholar of English Steve Walker
  • This is standard British English usage; all Middle-earth articles use this language.
    • Hmm. Is it required for British English? When I read it, I immediately think it's unnecessary. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)
      • This is the diction used in this and all other Middle-earth articles. It is standard in BE; it may be that some BE speakers use variant dictions, in which case all that needs to be said is that this is the chosen Middle-earth article diction.
        • I found it in the Middle-earth Project standards -> Usage and spelling: "Articles should use British syntax, such as the definite article in phrases like "The critic Jack Smith..."." My bad for not checking there. Request withdrawn (as well as all others that apply). – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Sentence fragment: Other Tolkien scholars and psychiatrists have broadly agreed, suggesting in addition Gollum's schizoid personality disorder and the resemblance of Frodo's increasingly disturbed mental state to post-traumatic stress disorder.
  • We have "Walker states xyz. Other Tolkien scholars etc have broadly agreed [with Walker], ..." which is not wrong, but let's spell it out for ease of reading.
    • That's better, but I also think moving "in addition" to immediately after the first comma would keep the reader [me] from glaring at it multiple times to try to understand the meaning. Thus: "Other Tolkien scholars and psychiatrists have broadly agreed with Walker, in addition suggesting Gollum's schizoid personality disorder and the resemblance of Frodo's increasingly disturbed mental state to post-traumatic stress disorder." I would probably put a comma after the moved "in addition", but your call. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)
      • Moved, but we are in danger of altering the diction here, and the comma certainly would do that. We're also perilously close to an edit-loop.
        • Oh, I'm not sure it would be perilous. A fire or earthquake is perilous. An edit-loop would be annoying. Looks good now, though, and I think it is more clear. We do like our commas in American English. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Remove leading "The": The medievalist Alke Haarsma-Wisselink
  • As above.

• Remove leading "The": The Tolkien scholar James T. Williamson
  • As above.

• Remove leading "The": The psychiatrists Landon van Dell...
  • As above.

• Remove leading "The": The Tolkien scholar Karyn Milos
  • As above.

• Remove leading "The": The Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung
  • As above.

• "Probably"? Did this come from the source?: and probably shared these ideas with Tolkien
  • Yes, article says "it was likely he...".
    • Okay. You don't need the comma before "and probably" since there is no repeat of the subject noun. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)
      • Edited; just removing the comma doesn't work at all in BE if the other comma is present.
        • Of course. And thanks. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Remove leading "The": The scholar Verlyn Flieger
  • As above.

• Remove leading "The": The clinical psychologist Nancy Bunting
  • As above.

• I think "in her words" should be surrounded by commas: such as in a letter to Christopher Tolkien which in her words
  • Done.
    • Good. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Remove leading "The": The Tolkien scholar Michael Drout
  • As above.

• Remove leading "The"; "film scholar" instead of "scholar of film": The scholar of film Kristin Thompson
  • As above.

• Is "as if" the doubting language? Maybe make this more clear: He writes that Tolkien's doubting language, "as if", and the amnesia both suggest
  • Edited.
    • Good. Let's say "and Frodo's amnesia" instead of "and the amnesia". I think the redundancy would be a positive for clarity. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)
      • No, Frodo is the subject of the paragraph, and he is named both in the previous sentence and a few words later.
        • Okay. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Or "not wishing to remember it": and then forgot it, did not wish to remember it.
  • Done.
    • Good. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

• Maybe say Denethor is the Steward of Gondor when he is first mentioned? "Denethor, the Steward of Gondor,"
  • Added.
    • Good. Then in the Paranoia section, you may not need it again, but you can leave it if you think it's better that way. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)
      • Removed the second gloss.
        • Good.

First round. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Second round. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 19:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Criterion 1a met. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Criterion 1b

• There is nothing in the Lead that touches on Tolkien's interest in the subject of mental illness. As it is a topic of a section of the article, it is important that it be covered in the Lead. Other than that, the Lead looks good.

Added.

That works. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk)

First round – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Criterion 1b met – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 06:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Criteria 5 and 6

Reviewed and no issues. Criteria 5 and 6 met

– Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)