Talk:Meša Selimović/Archives/2006/October

estavisti' and bosoni's little debate on the each other's alleged pov

One, he was a Serbian writer by his own admission. Two, he could have lived in Belgrade and not be a Serbian writer. He's a Serbian writer because he was a Serb wrote in Serbian. Not to mention the insinuation that Serbs are somehow foreigners in Bosnia, but we'll let that go. Thirdly, how can his parents be Bosniaks when people have only been declaring themselves as such for the past 15 years? Fourthly, "Serbs tend to mean it was ment in an ethnic way while Bosniaks characterize it as merely a regional designation.". This doesn't even deserve a response, but I'll dignify it with one. He declared that he belonged to the nation which produced Matavulj (a Montenegrin Serb), Kočić (a Bosnian Serb), and Andrić (a Bosnian Catholic Serb/Croat). So he's obviously not referring to that fact that he lived in Serbia. Not to mention that he said that "my deepest kinship with them I don't need to prove". Bosoni, as is clear from his userpage, is a Bosnian Muslim nationalist, and various Bosnian Muslim propaganda has made him believe that Serbs are usurping his cultural heritage. When this patently isn't true, he clutches at straws to construct a selective, skewed and outright falsified version of the facts, which he can succeed in reconciling with his world view. I'd really appreciate it if he could do that somewhere other than on Wikipedia's supposedly neutral pages. --estavisti 04:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Estavisti I most say I admire your versatile language, you are good. But sadly the content of what you are saying is rubbish. Estavisti please: 1. He was muslim, 2. His parents were Bosniaks, (Last 15 years? and you're not a serb nationalist?) 3. His origins belong in the Bosnian country because he was born their and so was his grandfather 4. His langauge resembled the Bosnian langauge much more than any other, the only problem back then was that serb and croat nationalist forbid the name "Bosnian language" becasue the truth scared them, and obviously still does (not pointing fingers now :O). I feel kinship with african americans for example, but does that make me one?... :O:O...And that quote is anyway purely made up by various serbian users on wikipedia, but I'll let you have your little play. I belong to the french nation - lived here my whole life - but does that make an ethnic french? This discussion is finito for now. Oh yeah, almost forgot, I'm not an adherent of Islam (not a Muslim) estavisti so how can I be a "Bosnian Muslim nationalist". Oh boy, sweet Jesus in heaven, what is your problem? Bosoni

Nice debating technique, countering arguments I didn't even make. 1) Of course he was Islamic, I didn't dispute that he was. So what? (2) Find me any source published more than 16 years ago that his parents were Bosniaks. Find me any statement by them to that effect. How can they have been Bosniaks when the Bosniak national awekening was only 16 years ago? (3) Again something I didn't dispute. However, Bosnia is a country of three equal nations: Serbs, Croats, and Muslims (today Bosniaks). So being from Bosnia doesn't somehow magically exclude him from being a Serb. (4) He wrote in a language which can be called Serbian, Bosnian, Serbo-Croat. The fact is he expressed clearly that he belonged to Serbian literature, that he felt a deep affinity with the greats of Serbian literature etc. The rest of what you have to say is neither here nor there. What is comes down to is your unsubstantied argument about the supposed Bosniakdom (which is itself largely irrelevant), as against the man's own self-expressed identity. --estavisti 17:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Estavisti I respect your thoughts, but you are reverting the quote I added! And we all know that the word in the quote is nationality and not ethnicity - becasue the qoute has been there for months and months but suddenly it was changed into ethnicity. And finally Mesa is primarily Bosnian - in the sense - that he belongs to that country. And I ask you kindly, don't revert the Bosniaks' view on Mesa's affiliation. But I agree with you on one thing, "Bosniak national awekening was only 16 years ago" - per definition it was re-born 16 years ago, but had existed prior to the brief (a century or so) Yugoslavian period for centuries. Estavisti I can see you are reasonable man and let's agree on something, I don't have anything against serbs or croats as a nation - I make my oppinions on individual basis. ("Nice debating", I know that was ment in an ironic sense, but so what?, I don't know english as well as you do! Perhaps becasue I don't live in England like you?) ) Thank you Bosoni

Your English is pretty good, the comment was about your ability to present counter arguments, regardless of your language ability. There still aren't any counter arguments, so back it goes until you make a case for your edits. As for the Bosniak view, it is presented in the article, as is the man's own view, and the reader can draw his own conclusions. --estavisti 19:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

EGO Just draw parallel between Switzerland and Bosnia. There are no SWITZERIANS,there are French,German and Italian linguistic and ethnic groups. I understand that it is dificullt for muslims from Bosnia to admit their Serbian or Croatian background. They are like part of river cut from mainflow. But i advice all the people to read history and not pseudo-history. And it is sad that borders of today are not drawn neither historicaly neither by ethnicity. It is important to have in mind that Bysantian ruler-Konstantin the 7th named Bosnia(land around river of the same name) explicitly state of the Serbs. Name of the state could be taken from ethnical(Croatia,serbia,England) or geographical(Switzerland,Moldavia,Austria,BOSNIA) background. Those are the facts that are well known and not hidden in some pseudo-historical lectures. After all,we are all one people torn apart by religion(which wrote the most of the bloody and sad pages in worlds history. Zanimljivo je sto Hamburski Nijemac uopste nemoze da razumije Nijemca iz Bavarije ali ipak zive u istoj zemlji,imaju stardandizovan jezik i obojica kazu za sebe da su Nijemci.Svakoga ko moze procitat ovo ja smatram svojim bratom a za kraj parafraziracu Andrica:Tko ti iskopa oko?Brat.Zato je rana tako duboka i krvava.