Talk:Maya Angelou/GA1

GA Review

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Hello, I'll be conducting this article's GA review. Overall I believe it to be in very good shape as far as the criteria goes: the material is based upon solid research, there is good coverage of the subject matter, the information is stable and neutral, all images are free and/or tagged correctly, and there are minimal MOS/prose issues. I have some suggestions/comments to make, but I have no doubt that this article fulfills the GA criteria. Thoughts below...

General

Some of the citations for multiple works by one author (Angelou and Lupton) do not have differentiation. Current ref 18, for example, is listed correctly as "Lupton (1998), p. 6", but ref 19 is simply "Lupton, p. 120" -- without a year. Years should be included for all duplicate citations, in order to make them consistent.

Done.

Watch the overlinking; I removed a few instances of repeated wikilinks, but there are a few other instances. I generally suggest linking once in the lead and once in the body of the article, where the term first appears. I see a couple duplicates of Caged Bird, Bantam Books, and the Civil Rights Movement.

Done, with some exceptions. I agree that words should be linked as you suggest, but that sometimes duplications spanning sections are warranted. For example, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings is linked a few times; for example, in the lead (of course), the first time it's mentioned in the bio section, and the discussion of its publication. I also tend to go to the other extreme in removing links, so please make sure I've haven't done that here, thanks. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 05:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

She has been called "America's most visible black female autobiographer".[3] She is best known for her series of six autobiographies. This can be condensed into two sentences, but the quote needs attribution. How about, "Having been called 'America's most visible black female autobiographer' by ___, she is best known for her series of six autobiographies."

Done.

King's assassination inspired her to write her first autobiography. Since Caged Bird is mentioned in the first paragraph, this seems a little out of place. In fact, as I continue to read, a lot of things seem disjointed -- I suggest reordering/expanding the lead, making things chronological. Perhaps include her early/personal life (which is currently missing) in the first paragraph, information on her work and career in the second, and the third much as it is, with her honors and legacy.

I didn't expand the lead per se, but I did move things around to be more chronological as you suggest. I added that Caged Bird covers the first seventeen years of MA's life and that the rest of her autobiographies cover "her early adulthood experiences". Most of the chronological changes were made to the second paragraph.

Angelou's use of fiction-writing techniques often result in the placement of her books into the genre of autobiographical fiction, but they are better characterized as autobiographies. Although probably explained later in the article, this could use a citation due to its contentious nature.

This same thing came up in the Caged Bird FAC! (Well, kinda.) Done. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 00:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Early years

Angelou's brother, Bailey Jr., gave her the nickname "Maya". How? It's been ages since I read Caged Bird, I honestly can't remember. :) It might also be useful to add that Bailey Jr. was older than her, as it says later on.

Changed to "Angelou's older brother, Bailey Jr., called her 'Maya', derived from his nickname for her, 'my-a-sister'.

Her biographer, Mary Jane Lupton, explains that when Angelou speaks about her life, she does so eloquently but informally and "with no time chart in front of her". Lupton explained where, when?

Had to think about this one, but I came up with this change: "Her biographer, Mary Jane Lupton, when speaking about these inconsistencies, has explained that when Angelou has spoken about her life..." Actually, that has come up in the editing of this article. It's on my list of things to ask Dr. Angelou if I ever had the honor of meeting her. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure of the timeline regarding Mary Lee; did she "cut all ties with her slave past" before or after she had her daughter? Make sure the information is linear.

I have discovered that chronology is one of my writing weaknesses. So after copyediting this paragraph, I cut the reference to Lee changing her name because it didn't fit anymore. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 20:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Henderson prospered financially during ~~this time,~~ the years of the Great Depression and World War II: this can be condensed.

Done.

Angelou and her brother were sent back to their grandmother once again. When?

Added the phrase, "Shortly after Freeman's murder..."

Angelou credits Bertha Flowers, a friend and teacher, with helping her speak again and introducing her to classical literature and authors. Do you mean by introducing her to classical literature and authors?

Boy, that's unclear. I changed the sentence to "Mrs. Bertha Flowers, a teacher and friend of Angelou's family, introduced her to classical literature and authors; Angelou credited Mrs. Flowers with helping her speak again."

Three weeks after completing school, she gave birth to her son, Clyde, who also became a poet. I remember this being very minor in the book, almost fleeting, but the father? The manner of her pregnancy?

Sorry, but I don't see how that's important. If readers want to know the details, they can look at the Caged Bird article. The explanation, Angelou was afraid that she was a lesbian and seduced a neighbor to prove herself wrong, doesn't fit here.

Like I said above, I remember being stricken by how quickly events unfolded, so it's not too important. However, surely if you're able to condense the situation in less than a sentence, as you did above, it won't take up much space in the article. :) Just something to consider. If you're still against the idea, then maybe a quick "as detailed at the end of her first autobiography" or something along those lines, so readers will know where to look if they're curious. María (habla conmigo) 01:28, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the article does state that these events are described in the book. Angelou's rape is discussed as well; again, the assumption is if readers want to know more, they can refer to the book or to the article. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 04:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As Lupton states: Be careful to keep the prose in past tense, since that is presumably when Lupton did the writing/stating.

Done. I'll look out for this in the rest of the article as well. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 00:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adulthood and early career

Angelou won a scholarship to study dance with Trinidadian choreographer Pearl Primus and married Greek sailor Tosh Angelos in 1952; the marriage ended in divorce after one-and-a-half years. This is somewhat confusing. She won the scholarship in 1952, but did she study with Primus? Where? For how long? That same year she married Angelos, but how did they meet?

Okay, here's the deal. This section is probably the weakest of the entire article. This information is in Angelou's third book, Singin' and Dancin' and Gettin' Merry Like Christmas, but I haven't included it because I've haven't read it yet. Actually, I'm in the middle of reading it at the current time; I promise to add it and to create the article when I'm done. See, this is exactly the reason I didn't want this up for GA yet! If this one issue keeps this article from passing, oh well. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 00:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand, and I'm totally cool with this article being a WIP at the moment. Seeing as how you probably intend to bring it to FA sometime in the futute, it's obvious you won't just let it sit around, gathering dust. Do what you can with what you have available, and remember that for GA the article doesn't need to be complete or even comprehensive, just "broad in its coverage" per the criteria. And don't forget, a lot of these are just suggestions! :) María (habla conmigo) 01:28, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And I believe, even with that lack of information, only due to not enough research being done at this time, this article fulfills that criteria. Like I've stated before, I'm not even going to think about bringing this to FA until that research is completed; meaning that I read all six of MA's autobiographies. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 04:30, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Angelou tends not to admit how many times she has been married, "for fear of sounding frivolous",[20] although it has been at least three times. Although she's still living, and certainly still talking, this should not be that familiar-sounding. How about something a little more tight, like "Although it is not known exactly how many times Angelou married—she has never clarified, "for fear of sounding frivolous"—it has been at least three."

Followed suggestions, with slight changes.

Known by "Rita Johnson" up to that point... since when? By whom? What did she change it to?

Changed to "Up to that point, she called herself 'Rita Johnson', but changed her name to 'Maya Angelou'... One of the themes in Angelou's writings, as this article states later on, that she uses her own many incarnations and names to demonstrate her many roles she adopts throughout her life and career. Singin' and Swingin' starts this: at first, she's called "Marguerite", then "Rita", and then finally, "Maya Angelou". This will be another piece of info that will be added to this article. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 05:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In 1968, King asked her to organize a march, but he too was assassinated, on her birthday (April 4) in 1968. This is a little confusing, as it makes like both Malcolm X and King were assassinated on her birthday. There is also the repetition of "in 1968" at the beginning and end of the sentence. How about, "In (early?) 1968, King asked her to organize a march, but he was assassinated on her birthday (April 4)."

I clarified this by deleting the repetitious phrase and using info from the Caged Bird article.

She did not celebrate her birthday for many years for that reason;[25] she sent flowers to King's widow, Coretta Scott King, every year until King's death in 2006. Is there a correlation between these two points? Instead of celebrating her birthday for many years after, she sent flowers to King's widow...?

This was changed as the above point was dealt with. I still don't like it, but it'll be dealt with as more research is done. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Later career

It was during this time, in the late '70s, that Angelou met Oprah Winfrey when Winfrey was a TV anchor in Baltimore, Maryland; Angelou became Winfrey's friend and mentor in 1984. Condense: "It was during the late 70s that Angelou met Oprah Winfrey when Winfrey was a TV anchor in Baltimore, Maryland; Angelou would later become Winfrey's friend and mentor." No need to state the specific year at the end.

Okay, done.

Since the 1990s, Angelou has been a busy participant in the lecture circuit. I'm not sure if "busy" is the right word here. Constant? Regular?

Changed to "actively participated in". Dr. Angelou's appearances have decreased significantly since she's gotten older, but I haven't found any source that states that outright, so I think this is the best wording.

In 1993, she was making about 80 speaking appearances a year; This doesn't make any sense, seeing as how 1993 is just one year. Did she make 80 speaking appearances in that year alone?

Good point. Changed it to "In 1993, she made approximately 80 speaking appearances".

"where seating is sold out long before the actual event." Where does this quote come from? Is there a reason why it's a direct quote and not paraphrased?

Well, the source (Lauret) is listed directly after the quote. I went ahead and paraphrased it this way: "Her most common speaking engagements occur on college campuses; the events tend to be sold out far in advance". --Figureskatingfan (talk) 18:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The paragraph beginning "Since the 1990s..." is all over the map, chronologically speaking. Could it be made more linear?

See above comment about my weak writing. Fixed.

Angelou spent part of her 80th year studying religion; in 2005, she attended a Unity Church service in Miami, Florida and decided that day to "go into a kind of religious school and study" on her 80th birthday. Somewhat confusing, and could be condensed. How about, "While attending a Unity Church service in Miami, Florida in 2005, she decided to 'Go into a kind of religious school and study' during her 80th year."

Okay, done. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 20:31, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Works

Although Angelou did not write her first autobiography, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, with the intention of writing a series of autobiographies,[16] she went on to write five additional volumes, covering her young adult experiences. This could be reworked a bit. How about, "Although Angelou wrote her first autobiography, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, without the intention of writing a series, she went on to write five additional volumes." I'm not sure that "covering her young adult experiences" is necessary here.

Okay. Actually, the last phrase in question was requested sometime during Caged Bird's FAC process.

They are distinct in style and narration, but unified in their themes and "stretch over time and place",[47] from Arkansas to Africa and back to the US, occurring in time from the beginnings of World War II to King's assassination. Hm, since the thematic elements are mentioned in great detail in a later section, maybe "unified in their themes" is out of place here. This sentence is also a little long and confusing.

Okay, I broke up that sentence and deleted the phrase as you request.

Angelou's long and extensive career also includes poetry, plays, screenplays for television and film, directing, acting, and public speaking. Since this section is entitled "Works", remove all mentions here that do not deal with written works. "extensive literary output includes..." perhaps?

I think there needs to be a section about the stuff Angelou has done. She calls it her "work", as per the quote box in this section. I think the solution is to re-name the section to something like "Career output", but that's just silly, so I went for a search of FA bios of people who have had varied careers like she has. I found that these articles divide the genres up and have long, extended discussions of each. The challenge with Dr. Angelou (and this is exactly the difficulty we ran into with the Caged Bird FAC) is that not enough been written about her to warrant this kind and length of discussion. I still think the solution is to rename the section, though. "Weird Al" Yankovic has a nice solution; the section similar to this one is called "Yankovic's work", so I changed the section title here to "Angelou"s work". What do you think?

Actually, the article currently says "Angelou's works". Is that a typo? "Works" always makes me think of literary input, but I'm am all for this idea of including her output under a large umbrella of "work". It may be useful to take another page from Yankovic's article and separate Angelou's output into singular genres; autobiographies, poetry, lectures, film/tv appearances, etc, etc. This would be a great place to expand once more research has been done. María (habla conmigo) 22:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yah, it was a stupid typo; it's now fixed. As I say above, the current situation makes this really difficult, since there simply isn't enough info to separate the genres like in Yankovic's article. What a world we live in, that there is more criticism written about "Wierd Al" Yankokic than about Maya Angelou. For example, there is not one book and/or article written about her poetry. And believe me, I've looked. Hopefully, we can find more as the article improves.

and she was chosen by President Bill Clinton to recite her poem "On the Pulse of Morning" during his inauguration in 1993. Repeat of already stated info -- same as the later mention of her appearance in Roots.

I'd like to keep this as is. I don't think repetition is always a bad thing. This section does summarize Angelou's "works".

Point taken. Perhaps when this section is expanded, new information will become available about these events/appearances, and others? I wonder if she wrote or spoke about the honor she felt by being chosen by Clinton to speak at his inauguration, or how she made the transition to acting; little touches like that will make the repeated factoids seem less samey, I think. :) María (habla conmigo) 22:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I promise to keep this in mind as this article is developed. There were plenty of articles written during that time that report her reaction to her recitation. It came out again this year, when she wasn't chosen to recite a poem at Obama's inauguration. I've learned that developing an article often entails returning to the sources to glean more information. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 23:55, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

She is one of the most honored writers of her generation, earning an extended list of honors and awards, as well as over thirty honorary degrees. Again, doesn't this belong in another section?

No, considering the change in section title. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 21:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The title change makes my point more apparent, actually: this section seems to be about her creative output, in all of its various forms, so mentions of her honors and awards belong in the section aptly named "Honors and awards". Unless of course one work in particular won a specific award -- in that case, I would understand where you're coming from. However, these honors seem to have to do with Angelou herself, and not a particular work. There's already a mention of her honorary degrees in the last section, so I would suggest just copy-and-pasting this sentence there. María (habla conmigo) 22:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, made the change, with slight differences. This is another section that could potentially be expanded. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 00:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Influence

Is this the correct title of such a section? It seems to be a mix of critical reception and controversy, as well as the overall influence of her works. Just something to think about.

Similar to what was done in the Caged Bird article, I created a new section, "Reception and legacy", and then broke it up into three additional subsections: "Influence", "Critical reception", and "Uses in education". Again, these sections have the potential to be expanded with more research. Let me know if you think the order should be changed.

Writer Julian Mayfield, who calls... and Author Hilton Als insists... change and keep to past tense; these claims were made in the past, and should be referenced to as such. Other examples exist throughout.

Done.

An Angelou biographer, Joanne M. Braxton, insists... This could be changed to either "Angelou biographer Joanne M. Braxton insisted" or "Joanne M. Braxton, an Angelou biographer, insisted..." for clarity.

Done.

Angelou's books, especially I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, has been criticized by many parents, verb agreement: have been criticized.

Done. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 04:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Themes in Angelou's autobiographies

"Style and genre" should be moved to its own section, as it's not under the thematic umbrella. Ultimately, her writing style should be expanded to include more specific details, perhaps even an example of her work? Also what about the style of her poetry and other modes of work?

Done. Of course, you're right. I just haven't been able to find any scholarly criticism of her poetry, except for the guy in a blog who said, "Dude! I don't understand what she's saying!" ;) Seriously, though, the lack of scholarship about Angelou is shocking. For example, Lupton, the best Angelou source out there is supposed to focus on all of Angelou's works, but devotes just 2 1/2 pages to her poetry. (Lupton really needs to write another edition; it stops at the fifth autobiography.)

Again, watch the present tense!

Again, taken care of. Whew! --Figureskatingfan (talk) 05:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Everything else looks good to me. Once the above concerns have been adequately addressed, I'll be more than happy to promote this article to GA-status. :) Get back to me if you have any questions. María (habla conmigo) 19:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. If I'm the one addressing your comments, and I suspect that I will be, it may take a while, since I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings is currently at FAC. When that's over, I'll tackle this GAC. There's a reason you shouldn't do two nominations at the same time. But I wasn't the one who nominated this for GA. And Maria, thanks for your kind comments at the other nom. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 20:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No prob, take your time! The article is on hold until you're ready. The article doesn't need to be perfect to pass GA, thank goodness, so also don't feel like you have to stress out about my suggestions. I'm often tough with the articles I review because part of me always has my eye on the FA prize. Forced habit. Again, if you have any questions or need extra time outside of a week, just drop me a line. María (habla conmigo) 22:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Great work, Figurestakingfan! I believe this article now fulfills the GA criteria, so I'm going to promote it. Congrats! Best of luck in researching and expanding -- I can believe that scholarly/academic sources are hard to come by, but don't give up hope! If you need help in searching literary databases (MLA Bibliography, JSTOR, etc), I'd be willing to lend a hand. I'm really impressed with your dedication to all things Angelou; I just saw that Caged Bird was promoted to FA, so congrats again! Let me know if you need help with this article down the line. María (habla conmigo) 12:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]