Talk:Max Fabiani

Copy of Urania Palace

The replica of the Wien's Urania Palace is located in Cluj Napoca (Downtown, Horia Streeet) in North-West Romania and is a landmark of this municipality —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.123.228 (talk) 08:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Slovene?

With all due respect to Slovenia and its warm-hearted people, is Max Fabiani really, really Slovenian or a Slovene? Here is something very disagreeable that I already came across on Wikipedia where people classify all sorts of personalities by today's borders or, almost implausibly, their real or alleged ethnic origin. Was Julius Ceasar an Italian? Certainly not. Neither is Max Fabiani a Slovene (or German or Italian). Max Fabiani is an Austrian; He is a known Viennese architect. His ethnicity is irrelevant (something that many contributors from ethnicity-obsessed locales refuse to grasp). It is as irrelevant today as what his blood type was when he was alive. He was also born under Austrian monarchy (or in the Austrian part of the dual monarchy) at the time when Slovenia did not exist as a nation or a state never mind a combination of the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roobit (talk • contribs) 10:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Warm-heartedness aside the slovene nation existed as a part of the austrian empire as that empire was multinational and consisted of several states, that is duchies, kingdoms etc. And the empire recognised different nations, Czechs, Germans, Hungarians etc., including the Slovenes who lived in about 4 such states of the empire and happened to have Maks Fabiani among it's members. So he may have been Austrian and Italian in regard to citizenship but was certainly Slovene with regard to nationality. Deciding somebodies nationality on the sole basis of his citizenship is much too simplistic in my view. It is not a matter of blood but rather a matter of culture, identity and also of upbringing. 193.2.37.51 (talk) 14:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Fabiani's nationality

During his life, Fabiani had a triple national allegiance. He was an Austro-Hungarian subject until 1918, and an Italian citizen after 1918. He also considered himself a Slovene: not only did he speak fluent Slovene (as evident from his correspondence), but he was part of the Slovene public life. In 1895, after the Ljubljana earthquake, his Slovene nationality (in the old Austrian sense of the word) was one of the reasons why he was chosen to make a new urban plan for Ljubljana (Breda Mihelič, Urbanistični rauvoj Ljubljane; Ljubljana: PK, 1983; p. 10). He was considered as a Slovene by the authorities that established the University of Ljubljana in 1919, when he was asked to take the chair for architecture at the newly founded Faculty of Technology (Ana Benedetič, Poti do univerze; Ljubljana: Studia Humanitatis, 1999). Viator slovenicus (talk) 00:58, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

In the biography of Mark Pozzetto Fabiani didn't consider himself Slovenian, even that did research on her Italian roots. He could speak Slovenian because he had studied, but that does not make him a Slovenian.--DirkP (talk) 07:59, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

We are dealing with two issues: the first one is whether he can be considered a Slovene architect (Slovene-Italian in the current description), or not. He was born in a Slovene environment and actively participated - at least until 1918 - in Slovene public life; he was publicly recognized as a Slovene (see quotes above!). Thus, he can rightly be considered (also) a Slovene architect: and indeed, he has been. Just google the phrase "Fabiani slovenski arhitekt". Whether or not he was also ethnically Slovene is another issue. In the last monograph on Fabiani, written by Andrej Hrausky and Janez Koželj, the first sections deal with Fabiani's family. The mother was born in a Tyrolean family in Trieste, while his father was a local peasant from Kobdilj. The authors claim that the father's family was of Friulian origin, who had however lived in Štanjel/Kobdilj for centuries. This of course means that they were completely assimilated to the local environment, since the village was completely Slovene-speaking. Furthermore, the book clearly shows that the father participated in the local Slovene public life and conducted his business in Slovene. User Eleassar asked me to produce the exact quote from the book stating that the father was an ethnic Slovene. I could turn the argument around and say: show me where is it written that he was an ethnic Friulian? There's no evidence whatsoever of that, only of his Friulian descent. But these are two different things. we have proof that he was member of the local Slovene-speaking community, that he spoke Slovene & used it in his business, that his son (i.e. Max Fabiani) was fluent in Slovene; but we have no proof that he even knew Friulian, nor a hint of evidence that he considered himself anything but Slovene (I even suspect that Kobdilj was one of those villages where 100% of the population declared themselves Slovenes in the Austrian censuses: that can be checked). With this, I leave the burden of argumentation to User Elassar. Best, Viator slovenicus (talk) 18:42, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Why don't we write a separate section on Fabiani's nationality / his relation towards the national issue? His latest biography provides some interesting insights in this regard. It would also be a good way to avoid simplistic categorizations and to show the complexity of the issue. Viator slovenicus (talk) 21:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Štanjel end the war

information about Hitler, the German army and the partisans are from the greatest works biography of Max Fabiani. I reinsert the text because it is documented with an important text and easy to find.--DirkP (talk) 07:23, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

On page 15 of the book of Mark Pozzetto there is described the youth of Max Fabiani. Viator Slovenicus you are mistaken or mis-remembered, I ask him to reread the book. Insert the modified part with the correct information.--DirkP (talk) 17:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The anecdote with Hitler (to all those unfamiliar with it: Fabiani claimed that young Adolf Hitler had approached him during his Viennese years in the wish to study architectural design) is proven to be false: Fabiani himself made it up relatively late in his life. It is unlikely that he would use it to impress German military personnel during WWII; even if he did, that cannot be verified in any way. In any case, even if he did, it is of minor importance: what matters is that he negotiated with the Germans in order to spare the village. Details are irrelevant, especially since they cannot be properly assessed. As for the partisans, they did not burn the village, but just the fortifications, in the battle with the Germans (see source). And I would kindly ask not to unilaterally remove meaningful contributions to the article before discussing it. If you disagree with qualifying Fabiani as "Slovene-Italian", I suggest you advance your arguments in the discussion page, rather than keep reverting. Thanks, Viator slovenicus (talk) 19:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

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