Talk:Masopha

Masopha has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: June 13, 2024. (Reviewed version).

Biography: Military

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Military history: Biography / African

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GA Review

Passed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Masopha/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Catlemur (talk · contribs) 19:44, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 07:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Catlemur! I'll look over this article some time this week. I've recently been working on articles for southern African chiefs as well (specifically of the Kwena people).

If I can ask one thing of you before I start, the paragraphs and sections are very long and should be shortened per MOS:LAYOUT. Most of the paragraphs should be about half the size that they currently are, so they need to be split. Then there should only be a few of these paragraphs per section, so more headings or subheadings should be used to organize the information. Normally I'd just mention this in the review, but it will be much easier for me to read if that part is done beforehand. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've split numerous paragraphs and have created subheadings so it should more readable now. Let me know if its still not good enough.--Catlemur (talk) 14:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Catlemur, I've posted the review below. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 02:44, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Catlemur, is this ready for another look? I see you've replied to everything except for one point under the spot checks. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:22, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien: I apologize for taking so long, I had a lot of commitments IRL. Feel free to take a look now.--Catlemur (talk) 17:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Catlemur, the changes look good. I've replied to two points below. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:06, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General

I made some style and grammar fixes. I suggest looking them over at Special:Diff/1223432239 so you know what to look for, and feel free to question/challenge any of them.
Specify which one is Masopha in the image, left or right

Done

There are a lot of "in year, this happened" statements, which interrupts flow and can make the article read like a timeline.

Should I remove the dates when there is a wikilink for the event such as in the case of Berea? I would appreciate any suggestion on how to resolve this.--Catlemur (talk) 17:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reader should be able to tell what happened when. The language should just be rearranged a little so it doesn't seem like a list of dates. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:06, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

The lead is a little light, and it could probably say more about his involvement in the Gun War.

Done

I don't know whether died in obscurity is correct. He was still pretty well known even if he wasn't celebrated.

Done

Early life

This section goes well beyond his early life, and it includes information that takes place after other sections in the article.
Change to early life and family.--Catlemur (talk) 17:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After the death of his younger brother Majara in 1859, he took his wives – It's unclear who the second "his" refers to.

Majara died, so his wives were taken by Masopha. Amended it to Majara's wives.--Catlemur (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In 1886, Masopha's eldest son Lepogo – Prior to this we knew nothing about his children.
Added that he had multiple children.--Catlemur (talk) 08:31, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rise to prominence

Masopha went on to distinguish himself – It reads awkwardly to say that he "went on" when it's the first thing mentioned in the section

Done

In 1858, war broke out – Just linking "war" makes it seem like the link goes to war instead of the specific war

I disagree, but I amended it nevertheless.--Catlemur (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

while trying to defend his village – What village? Whose is it?

Specified that I am talking about Masopha's Mile (which he had previously founded).--Catlemur (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchy broke out, as rebels began attacking loyalists who had surrendered their weapons and seized their property – Who seized whose property?

The rebels seized loyalist property, specified it.--Catlemur (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In response to Letsie's calls for deescalation, Masopha and the heir apparent Lerotholi began to prepare for war. – I wouldn't call that a "response". Maybe this could be changed to "Despite Letsie's calls"

Done

Gun War and downfall

Why is "downfall" part of the heading? The section isn't really about that except for a couple sentences near the end.

Done

Demanding to be granted almost arbitrary power... – This is a sentence fragment and I'm not sure what it's referring to.

Masopha demanded that the Basuto-British relations return to the same stage they were during the initial contact between the two. The major Basuto chiefs traditionaly wielded almost arbitrary power during that time, while the British exercised very little influence on their affairs.--Catlemur (talk) 02:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

after the Award was cancelled in April 1882 – What does "cancelled" mean here? It's not wrong, but I feel like another word would work better. Had it been implemented yet?

"Facing continued diplomatic protests from the Free State and unable to enforce the law in Basutoland, the Cape Parliament passed the Disannexation Act in September 1883.". The Award was cancelled in the sense that its terms did not apply anymore, since Basutoland was disannexed from the Cape Colony.--Catlemur (talk) 08:31, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

During Masopha's lifetime his bravery – We shouldn't describe his actions as "bravery" ourselves, as that makes it sound like we're endorsing that opinion.

"His name is only mentioned in one line of the praise-poems of Masopha, the third and bravest among the sons of Moshoeshoe". This is the sentence verbatim, you be the judge.--Catlemur (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The way it's written right now makes it sound like we're the ones calling him brave, and that the poems are something that happened because of it. The article should be clear that it's the poems which say he's brave, not us. A similar problem in the lead where the article describes him as brave. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:06, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done

References

All sources seem reliable.
It might be worth copyediting the references at some point because there seem to be some punctuation issues, but it's nothing I'm concerned about.

Spot checks:

Bradlow (1970) – Does page 224 support His stance prevented the restitution of property to Basuto loyalists residing in his district? Otherwise all three uses are good.
Supplemented it with another source so all claims are covered now.--Catlemur (talk) 17:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Mohome (1972) – Good.
Morelli (2022) – Good.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.