Talk:Mary Burns

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This article was nominated for deletion on December 21 2007. The result of the discussion was No Consensus.

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AFD

I closed the AfD as No Consensus (rather than Keep) because there didn't seem to be much support for the current state of the article. It clearly needs some work but there is no consensus for deletion either. Eluchil404 (talk) 01:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Work needed: this article needs to be split into two and both need separate sourcing, with a disambiguation page. (See AFD.) --Lquilter (talk) 17:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Lquilter (talk) 17:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Wife"

Mary Burn is described as Friedrich Engels' wife in the article. However in the larger article on Engels they are described as never marrying as Engels did not approve of the institution of marriage. I haven't edited the description as I do not know enough about their relationship to determine what word is best used to describe Mary's relation to Engels. Oska 12:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I rephrased; my understanding and sources say they were never married. --Lquilter (talk) 03:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To describe a woman as "the wife of ...." in general has an unnecessary downgrading effect on the status of the person that's described as "wife of". Further it redirects the focus from the mainperson to the person she's married with. In general it therefore should be avoided. f.i. "In 1952 she married John Brooks is more neutral.

In this case both were against the institution of marriage, and they probably never officially married. I changed the text into a more neutral line.

Is there any proof that Mary was opposed to marriage? The article should probably only state that Engels was idelogically opposed to marriage. Even then you can't say that that is the reason they didn't get married unless you can find a source.138.40.66.80 (talk) 11:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Ellen

The article says that Mary Ellen, the niece, was born in 1859, meaning she was only 4 when Mary Burns died? It seems 1844 or so might be a better year of her birth, given the certainty that a portion of her duties involved sexual services to Engels. Face it, he was a horn dog! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.91.54.4 (talk) 00:23, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Age/Date of Death

Why does source 2 give a different date of death (7 January 1863) then this Smithsonian article ("...January 6, 1863, she was only 40.")?

^[1]

References

^ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-friedrich-engels-radical-lover-helped-him-father-socialism-21415560/

Photo

The current text (July 21, 2021) says there is no known image of Mary Burns. The photo that accompanies the article is identified on other websites as a photo her nice Mary Ellen "Pumps" Burns, and should be so identified.

I don't think this photo should be used as it is not of the subject of the article and is therefore misleading...--Jack Upland (talk) 22:22, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-friedrich-engels-radical-lover-helped-him-father-socialism-21415560/

[1]