Talk:Marnie Hughes-Warrington

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This article was nominated for deletion on 8 October 2022. The result of the discussion was keep.

Unwarrented or unreasonable removal of material from biographical entry

There appears to have been material removed over the past year that would seem otherwise to meet the threshold for inclusion.

This dealt with two related aspects of the subject's professional life while Deputy Vice-Chancellor at the Australian National University. The first is her leading involvement in the change management process that the ANU instituted on its Schoo of Music. The deleted text was:

On 3 May 2012, Professor Hughes-Warrington announced wholesale changes to the staffing and curriculum of the ANU School of Music.^[1] The decision was criticised by the director of Canberra International Music Festival Chris Latham, who stated it was "absolutely and utterly devastating".^[2]

It is obviously right that Wikipedia editors ensure that a BLP entry is "written responsibly, cautiously, and in a dispassionate tone, avoiding both understatement and overstatement." I would posit for an entry on this individual *not* to mention her leadership of this change management process would be neither reasonable nor dispassionate, given how significant, and indeed undeniably controversial, the matter was for the university and the wider community, and how voluminous the press reporting was at the time.

The YouTube link was to the ANU's own channel, and is, and remains a document of some historical interest (I am not sure how the platform itself diminishes its credibility as evidence in this case!). But it is very easy to find corroborating sources, for instance https://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/students-sound-a-protest-at-music-cuts/news-story/0a0b26c991b5cbae2d51f14d8e955ba5 or https://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/05/14/3502217.htm or https://www.woroni.com.au/news/glorified-musical-tafe-massive-changes-to-school-of-music-announced/ and so on...

The second is the reports of the subject being named in a Public Interest Disclosure. The entry read:

The former Head of the School subsequently submitted a Public Interest Disclosure naming Professor Hughes-Warrington among other senior ANU officials in relation to submitted evidence that the Commonwealth Ombudsman said showed "instances of disclosable conduct, namely conduct that constitutes maladministration and conduct which, if proved, would be grounds for disciplinary action or conduct which is in breach of a law."^[3]^[4]

Again, I am not sure why this would be removed--the press sources here (the Australian national broadcaster etc) are about as reliable as it gets. It seems odd indeed that Wikipedia would seek to suppress this information. 109.249.183.105 (talk) 12:11, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Marnie Hughes-Warrington and Adrian Walter press conference: Bachelor of Music changes". Youtube. Archived from the original on 2021-12-21. Retrieved 10 March 2019.
^ Jacobs, Genevieve. "Discord at the ANU's School of Music". ABC News (Australia). Retrieved 10 March 2019.
^ Hare, Julie (24 May 2017). "ANU heavies to face the music over school's governance". The Australian. Retrieved 10 March 2019.
^ "ANU corruption and misuse of funding allegations under investigation - ABC News". ABC News. 24 May 2017.

IP Editor, I removed the material the second time. It is possible that some version of it can be included, but surely not in this form. There are quite a few Wikipedia rules surrounding this, and I'll try to link to them (apologies if this is sometimes a little technical). Anyway, to include it in the article on Hughes-Warrington, we'd need multiple high quality sources discussing her role in detail (see WP:BLP; reliable sources are discussed at WP:RS). The Youtube source is primary, and does not contribute. The 2nd abc source does not mention her at all, and the 1st one only glancingly. I am unable to view the Australian source. I'm not seeing the sourcing that we'd need here. If some form of this material _were_ to be included, then it should be a sentence or two under Career. In particular, a self-standing Controversy section is to be avoided per WP:CSECTION. This article was previously discussed at the Biography of Living Persons Noticeboard, where Morbidthoughts found some other sources that looked more usable [1][2]. Morbidthoughts, perhaps you have thoughts about if and how the music school incident should be covered in the article here? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 08:08, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing those sources, the coverage of her was just as spokesperson for the school in the dispute, and this felt WP:UNDUE for a non-public figure as I felt the coverage of her wouldn't sustain our general notability guidelines. Her notability here on wikipedia is more on her WP:ACADEMIC writings than her administrative roles. Morbidthoughts (talk) 13:51, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Marnie Hughes-Warrington and Adrian Walter press conference: Bachelor of Music changes". Youtube. Archived from the original on 2021-12-21. Retrieved 10 March 2019.

[2] Jacobs, Genevieve. "Discord at the ANU's School of Music". ABC News (Australia). Retrieved 10 March 2019.

[3] Hare, Julie (24 May 2017). "ANU heavies to face the music over school's governance". The Australian. Retrieved 10 March 2019.

[4] "ANU corruption and misuse of funding allegations under investigation - ABC News". ABC News. 24 May 2017.

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