Talk:Marine salvage

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Section sizes

Section size for Marine salvage (70 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	5,399	5,399
Types	672	6,273
Contract salvage	1,600	1,600
Pure salvage	1,979	1,979
Naval salvage	570	570
Plunder	522	522
Intelligence salvage	930	930
Law	4,929	4,929
Techniques	680	56,664
Disabled and abandoned vessels afloat	1,131	1,131
Stranded and sunken ships	100	14,577
Surveys and planning	721	721
Refloating	963	963
Reduction of ground forces	502	12,068
Weight management	275	275
Buoyancy	353	353
Ground removal	577	577
Scouring	569	569
Heavy machinery	2,027	2,027
Patching and cofferdamming	2,423	2,423
Dewatering	696	1,631
Salvage pumps	935	935
Pulling systems	940	940
Salvage rigging and lifting	2,771	2,771
Wrecking in place	725	725
Capsized ships	2,431	9,812
Environmental effects	1,234	1,234
Righting in place, then refloating	3,696	3,696
Refloating while lying on the side	922	922
Refloating while upside down	1,529	1,529
Minimizing disruption to shipping	647	647
Salvage firefighting	1,011	1,011
Deep water salvage	1,390	28,806
Underwater searches	817	20,580
Sensor types	71	5,597
Echo sounders	765	765
Side-scan sonar	917	917
Pinger locators	1,480	1,480
Magnetometers	1,076	1,076
Optical imaging systems	1,288	1,288
Sensor platforms	77	3,040
Surface vessels	768	768
Towfish	543	543
Remotely operated vehicles	797	797
Crewed submersibles	235	235
Autonomous underwater vehicles	620	620
Other search tools	32	2,487
Navigation systems	374	374
Loss data analysis	1,557	1,557
Search probability analysis	524	524
Search patterns	1,144	4,686
Parallel grid search	1,033	1,033
Constant range search	620	620
"Z" search	1,052	1,052
ROV box search	837	837
Search coverage	3,953	3,953
Recovery systems	2,673	6,836
Lifting	4,163	4,163
History	1,305	28,591
16th to 18th centuries	9,351	9,351
19th century	2,784	2,784
20th century	10,038	10,038
21st century	3,256	3,256
Technological advances	1,857	1,857
See also	616	783
People	167	167
Notes	35	35
References	23,542	23,542
Further reading	689	689
External links	538	538
Total	127,443	127,443

comments

Not in favour of merging with treasure diving, ship salvage is not very related, there is just a passing kmention of diving in the article. 18:00, 12 June 2006 154.5.132.51

It seems to me that treasure diving, marine salvage and marine salvage law should be three different articles. --Gbleem 13:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They're different subjects; I can see keeping the salvage law content here until the articles get too big, though. Georgewilliamherbert 00:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge. The treasure hunting article emphasises that this is a legal activity - however, it is only legal because it falls under the principles of marine salvage. The treasure hunting article specifically states that it applies to maritime salvage. Viv Hamilton 09:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see the treasure hunting article expanded. Legally, salvage is salvage, and that's covered nicely, but there is more to the treasure and historical aspect. Bring in some notable hunters and finds, for example.Lisamh 20:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree to merge MARINE SALVAGE with TREASURE HUNTING. Marine salvage is an industry/activity sector that provides commercial services for the world's maritime and insurance communities. Marine salvage companies are engaged in marine casualty response, pollution defense, wreck removal, cargo recovery, towage and related activities, which doesn't reflect the definition of treasure hunting per se.

Merge removed

I have removed the merge proposal tags. Consensus is against doing it. Georgewilliamherbert 20:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bad title sentence

"Marine salvage is the process of rescuing a ship, its cargo, or other property from peril." I wouldn't describe salvage this way. This describes what coast guard rescue does, not salvage. I'm changing it.

97.113.105.224 (talk) 03:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Salvage and rescue and quite different matters. A ship being recovered may be in peril - more often than not it isn't.JohnC (talk) 05:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Investigation

Should investigation be listed as a reason for salvage work? As an example, the efforts to recover Air France 447 right now - wouldn't this be a salvage operation for the purpose of determining why it crashed?

This was also part of the reason for the rediscovery of the Titanic. Most notably, they learned that the ship did split in two as it sunk.

97.113.105.224 (talk) 03:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Salvage was not the reason for the Titanic discovery. It was a by-product of/cover for a search for sunken American nuclear submarines.JohnC (talk) 05:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Salvage can be done for investigation, but investigation can be done without salvage.· · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 18:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

to add to notable salvages

i'd suggest perhaps:

space shuttle challenger remains.
that apollo space capsule that sunk. or was it mercury?
recovery of the sully sullenberger jet.

Cramyourspam (talk) 05:20, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Added Phoenix International Holdings, Inc. (Phoenix), under the direction of the U.S. Navy’s Supervisor of Salvage and Diving (SUPSALV), located and recovered the fuselage of a downed MH-60 Seahawk helicopter in the Philippine Sea from a record breaking depth of 19,075 feet or 3.6 miles beneath the surface. This is 266 feet deeper than the previous salvage record, also set by Phoenix and SUPSALV during the recovery of a C-2 Greyhound aircraft in 2019 and cited source. I work for Phoenix — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhnxMktg (talk • contribs) 19:16, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removed "the deepest successful marine salvage operation to date" from "The search for the wreckage and flight data recorders of South African Airways Flight 295 is at 16,000 feet" (4,900 m) as it is no longer the deepest-I work for Phoenix who holds the current record. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhnxMktg (talk • contribs) 14:11, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If we have an article on something that might qualify as a notable salvage, please leave a link here. A short explanation of why it should be considered for the article can be added to save time. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 08:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marine salvage in popular culture

The famous Stan Rogers song "The Mary Ellen Carter" is about a fictional ship salvage. Worth a mention here? --Ernieba1 (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have never heard of Stan Rogers or the song, so can't comment on its value to anyone looking up marine salvage. Why do you think it should be mentioned? • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 14:19, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notable salvages

In tidying some "in progress" cases that have since been resolved, I added a resolution to the Black Swan Project from it's own page. I'm finding the Vrouw Maria situation to be somewhat unclear. Phrases from the VM WP page specifically relevant to this one say the following: "The ship was in good condition when it was discovered, but only six objects from the deck of the ship have been salvaged. The cargo holds have not been disturbed, so the condition of any art on board remains unknown. The Finnish National Board of Antiquities is responsible for the ship and all recovery efforts." and that "A dispute between the discoverers and the authorities was later resolved." but not how. If anyone is able to say how this relates to the phrasing as it stands, clarification would be good.

Current phrasing: "Vrouw Maria was discovered in 1999, and after a protracted legal battle, plans for salvage are still in the discussion and planning stage^{[citation needed]}. It is known to contain priceless works of art."
EmyP (talk) 12:25, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So not actually a salvage yet. I have commented it out until the salvage is at least started.· · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 08:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Negative pressure?

In the history section:

"this meant that if a hose became severed, the high-pressure air around the diver's head rapidly evacuated the helmet causing tremendous negative pressure that caused extreme and sometimes life-threatening effects."

There's no such thing as negative pressure. That would be less than vacuum. I'd propose a better wording if I understood what the sentence tries to explain.

Hope someone does and takes care of this.

Should have been negative pressure difference between the inside of the helmet and the surrounding water. This is a common error, and easy to fix. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 15:14, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Connection to historical wrecking

I've worked a lot on Wrecking (shipwreck), which is about the 19th-century and earlier pursuit of salvaging shipwrecks. I'm looking at how to tie that history in with this article, but am not sure of how to do so. Any thoughts? - Donald Albury 12:12, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marine salvage - misnomer?

An article titled "Marine salvage" that tells you everything except for the most important item - how marine experts go about salvaging a ship. 182.239.144.105 (talk) 08:46, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Working on it, do you have any suggestions? · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 03:43, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Largely done, and the article is now much larger. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 08:14, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if I have missed anything important. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 08:28, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Harmonising references for consistency as required for FA

I intend to edit the references to format them consistently as required for FA. My preference is for list format and CS2 templates, because I find them easier to maintain and the body text is less cluttered. If anyone has an objection, please suggest an alternative you are willing to set up and maintain, that provides an equivalent level of consistency and compliance with MoS and FAC requirements. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 08:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I'm concerned, consistency using a standard format is the main issue, so go for it. Donald Albury 15:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Split out some details to merge into Underwater searches

I plan to condense or summarise some of the content about underwater searches, and move the fully detailed stuff to Underwater searches, once I have worked out how best to do it. Constructive suggestions welcome. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 07:21, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. More trimming and copy editing may still be useful. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 08:20, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Upcoming major copyedit

Hello all, I will be copyediting this article as a request posted in April 2023. I plan to correct some formatting issues as well as grammatical errors found within the paper. This will be a continuation of the copyedit shown above. Criticism welcome. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 23:45, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done, but several of the paragraphs I've copyedited may contain instructions / how-to content and may be too technical. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 21:14, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

TrademarkedTarantula please specify what information in the article is instructional or "how to" as opposed to how salvage is done, which is descriptive of the process, and a very different matter. Also, if you tag anything that needs explantion or clarification, that can be done. It is a technical topic to some technical language is to be expected, but where useful, it can be explained or linked. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 16:10, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]