Talk:Maria Stromberger

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thank you for creating this well-written and researched page on a notable World War II-era Austrian nurse. I appreciate your contribution to the history of this period.

Ppt91^talk 19:24, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 00:42, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Maria Stromberger

• ... that Auschwitz nurse Maria Stromberger (pictured) gave the inmates food, medicine, and guns? Source: Benedict (2006). "Maria Stromberger: A Nurse in the Resistance in Auschwitz". Nursing History Review. pp. 195–196. "Stromberger always came with something when the guards were absent: food, medicine, and news of the outside world. [...] Stromberger’s smuggling became even bolder and she brought in pistols, ammunition, and explosives for use in a Polish uprising in the camp."
  • ALT1: ... that Maria Stromberger (pictured) was sent to Auschwitz by her own request? Source: Benedict (2006). "Maria Stromberger: A Nurse in the Resistance in Auschwitz". Nursing History Review. p. 193. "This gave her the idea to transfer to Auschwitz. [...] Nevertheless, Stromberger went to the regional nurses’ registry in Kattowitz, where she received her assignment."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Millennium Complex

Created by Thebiguglyalien (talk). Self-nominated at 17:21, 5 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Maria Stromberger; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• New enough, long enough, sourced, neutral, no plagiarism detected, hook cited, pic is licenced and of good quality. Preference for ALT0. Good to go. Z1720 (talk) 18:03, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Maria Stromberger/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ppt91 (talk · contribs) 19:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I am happy to review this interesting article and hope to have the first batch of feedback by the end of this week. Looking forward to working together! Ppt91^talk 19:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Overall, as expected of this editor, the article is well-written, detailed, and supported by reliable historical scholarship. My comments mostly have to do with providing more context regarding World War II and the Holocaust and clarifying certain aspects of her life and career.

Lead

• I think the lead, overall, should be expanded and would benefit from more historical context especially for an unfamiliar reader
• the opening sentence should be more specific; perhaps better to say "nurse who is best known for her support of the resistance movement at Auschwitz concentration camp during World War II and the Holocaust."
• "Following the allied victory and the liberation of concentration camps..." or something along those lines
• is "obscurity" the most appropriate term here? You mentioned "relative obscurity" later one, but she played an important role in bringing Höss and others to justice, so I think that needs to be mentioned here
• is "Angel of Auschwitz" a term used by the Polish early communist press or officials (which would generally align with the anti-German propaganda that whitewashed Soviet crimes by focusing on Auschwitz and turning it into a national museum very early on)? if so, can it be linked here? It looks like the article in German only mentions she "was referred to as the 'Angel of Auschwitz' by prisoners" and doesn't talk about ways in which this description was used post-WWII (other than "In Vorarlberg erinnert weder ein Straßenname, noch eine Tafel oder der Name einer Schule an diese Frau, den "Engel von Auschwitz", wie sie von den Häftlingen genannt wurde." which talks about Austria and indicates that term was not used)
  • It's hard to say. Several sources refer to her by the name, but they don't really go beyond that. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Early life

• Metniz, Carinthia should be clarified to indicate it was then part of Austria-Hungary
• "As a child, she wished to become a nurse." could we replace "wished" with "had an interest" or "was interested"? Seems like odd phrasing, but that's entirely a matter of preference.
• might be good to say that she moved to Bregenz following the end of World War I, as it resulted in Austria becoming a separate political entity
• could you briefly explain what Mehrerau Sanitarium was?
  • The sources don't elaborate on that, but I added a link for at least some context. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• more context for World War II needs to be provided here; despite her intentions later, she was starting her professional life as the Nazis came to power and subsequent outbreak of the war
  • Added a mention of the timeframe relative to World War II, but the war itself didn't directly affect her that much as far as I can tell. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• was she a member of the NSDAP? if not, that should be clarified here
  • Added (the answer is probably not). Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• "despite her sister's warnings" can you say a bit more or does the source not provide any more context?
  • It does not. If this is too vague without additional detail, it could just be removed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• should be "Nazi-occupied Poland" and linked
• that part of what is today Chorzów then was called "Królewska Huta"
• I assume the hospital in Chorzów was used by the Nazis?
  • The sources say next to nothing about the hospital. As far as they're concerned, it's just a connecting point from when she arrives in Poland to when she gets to Auschwitz. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

More soon! Ppt91^talk 21:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Auschwitz resistance

General comment: it looks like Auschwitz resistance is only discussed in the third paragraph; maybe it could be a subsection for a more general section name "Auschwitz concentration camp" with "Resistance movement at Auschwitz (1943-1944)" as subsection title

• As above, the first paragraph should provide more historical context for Auschwitz and the Nazi activities at the camp in and around 1942; she arrived at the time that coincided with the first mass gassings of Jews and the implementation of the "Final Solution" which would become an integral element of the Holocaust
  • The first paragraph mentions that she saw the inmates being taken to the gas chambers. The sources mostly just focus on her interactions with the working inmates, not the ones set to be killed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• can we say more about her day-to-day duties? was she caring for any inmates? It mentioned she met Edek Pys, but it is not clear what her responsibilities were
  • I looked through the sources, and I only found that she was treating the officers for typhus, which I added to the article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• link contraband
• link typhus
• link infirmary
• resistance movement at Auschwitz needs more context
• "provided some of the earliest evidence of the atrocities that took place there" could you give one or two examples to be specific?
• "as mass killings became a larger part of operations in Auschwitz" I think it needs to be mentioned that it was by and large extermination of Jews; almost one million out of 1.1 million estimated in total
• "she was transferred from the camp based on an error on her medical history suggesting she suffered from a morphine addiction" do we know if this was an intentional fabrication or just an unintentional error?
  • I took another look at the source and found some context for it. I've went back and forth on this since I first wrote the article, but I think I've settled any potential OR issues by attributing the idea in-text. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• "The extent she helped the inmates was never discovered while she worked at Auschwitz." odd syntax; maybe "The extent of the help and care she provided for Auschwitz inmates was not discovered until after her transfer." or something similar

Later life and death

• "After leaving Auschwitz, Stromberger saw a doctor in Berlin, who also falsely diagnosed her with a morphine addiction." is this connected to the earlier claim?
  • Changed the wording so it's clearer. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• link Berlin
• "She then spent the next month in Prague." should specify it was in Nazi-occupied Czechoslovakia and linked along with Prague
  • I'm not sure if this is relevant. By this point . Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• I would link "French forces" to French army during WWII
• link internment camp
• "One Polish newspaper ran a front-page article demanding that she be freed" do we know which one?
  • No, but I was able to narrow it down to the city. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

  I think I have the answer: according to Susan Benedict's article you cited (p. 200) it was written by Tadeusz Holuj for Echo; I double checked with the Polish source from 1962 and it was indeed Echo Krakowa from August 8, 1946 Ppt91^talk 01:38, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

• I would add "and a future prominent politician in communist Poland" with communist Poland linked
• "Stromberger gave up nursing after the end of the Holocaust" maybe "following the end of World War II"
• link massage therapist
• both Höss and Clauberg need to be identified along with their trials; the first one was in early communist Poland (Supreme National Tribunal) and hanged at Auschwitz, the second died before his trial in West Germany almost a decade later
  • I added their roles at Auschwitz. I don't think anything else about these men is significant to Stromberger specifically. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• "honorary president of a Holocaust survivors' group" do we have more details?
  • Added the group's German name. It doesn't seem to have any English language presence. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• "Stromberger died of a heart attack on 18 May 1957" was she still in Bergenz?
  • Yes, according to Brunner (2021). Added the city to the sentence about her death. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• "doing so in secret as it was against Catholic teachings"; this sounds ambiguous and is no longer the case, so I would add some more details; maybe you can mention that it was still before the ban for cremation was lifted by the Catholic Church in 1963 or something that would provide more context
  • added "at the time". Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• "Stromberger was a national hero among the Polish resistance" this sounds vague; does the article provide any more information?
  • It says that she was revered, and it says that she was greeted with ovations when she visited the country. I've added the latter point to the article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Images

• A plaque honoring Stromberger at Wernberg Castle in Wernberg, Austria -- this looks very interesting; could it be described in the text or in the caption for the image?
  • All I know about this plaque is that there was a photo of it on Wikicommons. It wasn't mentioned in any source. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

  Here is what I found The only place in Carinthia that preserves the memory of Maria Stromberger's personality is the monastery of the Sisters of the Order of the Precious Blood in Vernberk. The nuns knew that mentally ill people were sent to their deaths from Vernberk Castle, the former mansion of the Khevenhüllers, during the Second World War as part of the so-called Operation T4. The nuns under the ideological leadership of Sister Andreas wanted to set the example of Maria Stromberger against this shame. They did this in 2016 with a bilingual memorial inside the arcade courtyard, seen in the image below. (...) This monument was designed by the artist Nežika Novak. translated with Google Translate from https://www.novice.at/intervju/neznani-zgled-clovecnosti-in-drzaljanskega-poguma/ Ppt91^talk 15:58, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

User:Thebiguglyalien Thanks for your patience, putting this on hold for now awaiting your comments. Ppt91^talk 19:36, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

@Thebiguglyalien Incorrect ping earlier; fixing. :) Ppt91^talk 19:36, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Ppt91, I've made most of the changes. I replied to a few of them above. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

@Thebiguglyalien I'll try to look through and reply by tomorrow. In the meantime, I wanted to share a few of my own finds, which I hope you will find helpful:

• Wontor-Cichy, Teresa. "Stanisław Kłodziński: Auschwitz survivor, medical practitioner, social activist, and journalist (1918–1990)." Medical Review Auschwitz: Medicine Behind the Barbed Wire. (Conference Proceedings 2022). 19–21 September 2022, Kraków, Poland: 11-24. A short but interesting paragraph about her professional title etc pp. 18-19
• on a related note, the source above cites a 1962 article from Przegląd Lekarski – Oświęcim (Medical Review Auschwitz) by Stanisław Kłodziński (former Auschwitz inmate who is the subject of the article above). It is also cited in the Nursing History Review source you used. I searched the footnote in Polish and it turns out that archival issues of the journal have been digitized in 2017 and are available for free on their website. The article is five pages in length titled Kłodziński, Stanisław (1962) “Maria Stromberger,” Przegląd Lekarski – Oświęcim. pp. 102-107. It's in Polish and I only skimmed it, but it looks fascinating and is extremely detailed; the first two pages, for instance, contain information ranging from prosaic (she and her sister lived at Heldendankstrasse 15 in Bregens) to historically important (stating that she was never part of the SS and never joined NSDAP, providing specific details on what she heard about the conditions at Auschwitz, and identifying the last name of the SS doctor, Dr. Entress, who hired her at the camp infirmary). If you do not read Polish, I'll be happy to look over it more carefully either tomorrow or later this week and let you know if there is anything else that might be useful for the article.
• also, the German book by Harald Walser was released in Polish this past summer and there are excerpts online, which can be Google translated, but without page numbers, so I think maybe it should just be included as further reading

Ppt91^talk 01:02, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Ppt91, so where are we at on this review? Is there anything I still need to do before the article meets the criteria? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Thebiguglyalien I never heard back from you regarding the additional sources I located, so I assumed you still needed some time and/or were preoccupied with other projects. I don't anticipate there being any significant/structural issues and the article looks good overall, but I would like to look through the article carefully again before passing. I have been quite swamped with stuff IRL, but I will let you know if I have any questions/comments by the end of the weekend latest. Thanks, Ppt91^talk 19:06, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Ppt91 I did end up getting distracted by other stuff. But yeah, checking in to see where we're at. As always, no rush. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:12, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

@Thebiguglyalien I so appreciate your patience here. It's been non-stop with several deadlines IRL and I, too, got distracted. I will do my absolute best to add any outstanding comments/edits by the EOD (EST) tomorrow. It's a great article, and an important one at that, so I just want to do my due diligence. :) Ppt91^talk 18:31, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

@Thebiguglyalien There are a few details that I was able to find in secondary sources that could be added for precision, but these do not stand in the way of GA. The article is sufficient for GA, so I am going to go ahead and pass. It's been a pleasure working together. Ppt91^talk 14:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suggestion

Would a map of Auschwitz I—with a marker on the SS infirmary she worked—be helpful, if a source could be found? Since the article says, for example, From the SS infirmary, she was able to see inmates being taken to the gas chambers where they were executed. [...] the reader might want to know the locations of those facilities at the camp to draw a mental picture, I suppose. BorgQueen (talk) 13:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)