Talk:Maria Clara at Ibarra

Show description

I've been meaning to create the summary/synopsis/plot/premise of the show since before its release, but it seems that it gets reverted every single time. The first time I tried to add it, it was reverted when I didn't add an "official source" despite checking other wiki pages with synopses and noticed that there was no need to add references. The second time I added it, this time basing the description on and referencing the official website, it was reverted for "plagiarism". I'm really confused on what to do now, so are there any guidelines of any sort on writing descriptions that I don't know? I just want to help out with moving the page out of being a stub. If there any issues with sources, I always base them on official GMA sources (AND I've watched the show). I'll be creating a new summary again so this Talk page topic can be seen easier, but I'd like a reply if it is ever undone. Thanks. FrizzleLamb (talk) 02:08, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Posting a blatant copy and paste texts from other websites is not allowed in Wikipedia. Don't do it again.TheHotwiki (talk) 02:53, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I didn't paste it from anywhere; I made sure to write it with my own words. Can you tell me which websites you assumed I got it from? FrizzleLamb (talk) 02:55, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

If it's alright with you, I'll remove the last part that "sounds like a marketing write up" and write the summary up to Episode 3 (where she meets Ibarra, another main character). Is that OK? I genuinely just want to help out on the page. FrizzleLamb (talk) 02:57, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

So you didn't copy and paste yet you added a reference which doesn't even back up the premise section? If you are claiming that you have used "your own words" then, original research isn't allowed either. Wikipedia isn't the site for you to create your own synopsis. I've seen previous editors who merely copied and pasted the premise so forgive me if I have confused you with those previous edits. How about you just leave it alone? Your edit is unreferenced and contains original research.TheHotwiki (talk) 03:01, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Does it count as original research if it's based on the episodes? (I made sure to watch the episodes before writing) I understand the issue, but seeing the page without any summary/premise feels odd to me. How or when can I add a synopsis, like with the other shows on the wiki? Can I at least create a short description with a reference to an article talking about the show? FrizzleLamb (talk) 03:06, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Just leave it alone.TheHotwiki (talk) 03:07, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Alright, noted and resolved. Thanks. FrizzleLamb (talk) 03:09, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Role of the Alferez

The role of the Alferez is played by Giovanni Baldisseri, not Jovit Moya. The only sources to validate this is to watch the show or look up the show's (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22410944/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm) and the actor's (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3640942/) IMDb pages. How do we work on this? iamdumdum (talk) 01:37, 07 November 2022 (UTC)

IMDb is not allowed to be used as a reference per Wikipedia's guidelines.TheHotwiki (talk) 13:47, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Split the List of Episodes into a separate Wiki article

Just a heads-up, Maria Clara at Ibarra [will] have 100 episodes. The 100th episode will air on February 17, 2023.

It's better to split the list of episodes into its own Wikipedia page. —ᜌᜓᜃᜒ (Yuki|雪亮) (talk | Contribs) 04:59, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Where is your source? Also the article isn't even that long to be split up.TheHotwiki (talk) 08:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

BTW, it's not yet confirmed to have precisely 100 episodes, but given that it is planned to end in February 2023, it's likely to have around an estimate of 100 episodes. But remember, this is subject to change. There are days in the Philippines where the usual evening teleseryes do not air because of special holidays. And about the separation -- it's not too long to be split into an article yet, it just seems big because the episode table takes up a lot of space. Maybe we can split at around 50 episodes? FrizzleLamb (talk) 03:57, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Even if it reaches 100 episodes, this article is still not long enough. The references are also mostly first party references like GMA Network.TheHotwiki (talk) 04:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Third-party sources

I have several questions regarding the template message on the page's usage of first party sources. I'd like to help changing them in order to remove the message, but I'm not sure where to start. Which ones [under specific sections] can I replace with non-GMA Network sources (other than the Episodes section)? I added most of the sources in the page, but it might be difficult to remove some of them - for example, the cast's names, pre-release announcements, and several exclusive behind-the-scenes tidbits are directly taken from GMA's news pages. Is there a maximum number of first-party sources allowed on a wiki page? And would just finding another news outlet reposting the latter two I mentioned (pre-release, exclusive BTS) be all right? Thanks in advance. FrizzleLamb (talk) 10:57, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Have you seen how many first party reference in this article? If you do, there's your answer.TheHotwiki (talk) 13:58, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't think you properly read the rest of the questions I asked. Some of the links are exclusive articles so they're too valuable to remove from the page, thus I was asking if there's a maximum number of first-party sources allowed. And I asked if replacing them with another news source that simply reposted the topic is fine. You didn't need to be so condescending about it. FrizzleLamb (talk) 14:31, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

This article is looking too fancruft at this point. If you could refrain it from making one, would help the article. Thank you.TheHotwiki (talk) 19:22, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Plot

@Borgenland:, please provide a reference if you're going to add an enormous plot section for a series with 105 episodes. Hotwiki (talk) 17:55, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

It is ridiculous of you to make WP:BUREAUCRACY demands and make bad faith assumptions in my talk page. As far as I’m concerned, MOS:PLOTSOURCE does not make such things necessary, unless you would like to have me ref bomb the entire plot to satisfy your preferences. Borgenland (talk) 18:09, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

If this was an article about a film, I wouldn't have an issue. But an article for a series with 105 episodes? Thats a lot of material. How will the readers know you aren't omitting significant happenings from the series. What is your criteria for writing this ginormous plot section? Hotwiki (talk) 18:13, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I am not have not omitted anything major. To expound on my explanation below, the story mostly follows the novels, with major divergences being the protagonist directly interfering with the novel’s canon through interactions and inadvertently changing the storyline. My only fault is that I am confused with how many words does a 2-arc series need. Borgenland (talk) 18:18, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Once again, please provide a reference and wait for a consensus before adding back, a huge chunk of unreferenced materials into the article. "I saw the show" isn't a good excuse to make unreferenced edits. Hotwiki (talk) 18:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

For the record, I finished the entire series on Netflix before, and if you read the Noli and Fili from start to finish, it is easy to siphon out where the important bits are. If you believe that I am lying, then run the summary through a copyvio detector. Borgenland (talk) 18:12, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I have also seen several dozen of shows but I don't go to Wikipedia, adding a plot summary without posting a reference. Per Wikipedia:Verifiability "Even if you are sure something is true, it must have been previously published in a reliable source before you can add it". Hotwiki (talk) 18:17, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

With all due respect, I could not buy into what looks like a WP:BUREAUCRACY behavior concerning WP:NOTCITE. But in good faith, I will desist for now but will return soon for a shorter plot sometime in the near future. Borgenland (talk) 18:29, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Its not a bureaucracy behavior, when edits are being reverted for being unreferenced, especially a massive chunk of unreferenced material. There are rules and guidelines for this. I've asked you for a reference, and you simply cannot add any reference to back up any of those materials you've just posted. Hotwiki (talk) 18:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Also per WP:NOTCITE, "If the subject of the article is a work that has been published or broadcast in a serial manner, then citing the episode, issue or book can aid comprehension for readers not familiar with the whole of the serial work. It also aids verification if editors are concerned about inappropriate use of the artistic work (a primary source) for interpretation". At least do that. Hotwiki (talk) 18:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Hotwiki, MOS:PLOTSOURCE covers the sourcing issue, saying The plot summary for a work, on a page about that work, does not need to be sourced with in-line citations, as it is generally assumed that the work itself is the primary source for the plot summary. Do you have concerns that Borgenland is misrepresenting the primary source in this instance? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:40, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I am having an issue with Borgerland coming up with a plot section for a show with 105 episodes. Its written in the editor's point of view. A big plot section that has zero citation to any of the episodes, for readers can check for verifiability. Hotwiki (talk) 18:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

So you believe they have misinterpreted or are maliciously misrepresenting the plot of the work? Or are you concerned that they may have done so? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why this became an edit war between two editors with plenty of experience. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I happened to remember. That’s all. I have created multiple plot summaries of both television series and films over the past years without incident and this is the first time that bad faith assumptions have been raised against me over what I assumed to be a routine exercise. Borgenland (talk) 18:52, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Borgenland, if you took the time to write a plot section for a series with 105 episodes, surely there are references out there, you could find that would back up the plot section. Hotwiki (talk) 18:58, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

For me, the plot section that was posted by Borgenland lacks credibility. If I am someone who haven't seen the show, and then read the plot section in this Wikipedia article. I would need to watch all 105 episodes just to see if the plot section is written properly. Hotwiki (talk) 18:52, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

That is true of anything sourced to a large work without page/episode numbers. Such information isn't required, though. In fact, sources aren't even required to be cited in-line. Unless there is a reason to doubt the summary, I'm not certain where the issue arises.

Borgenland, would you be able to cite some key points to specific episodes if it helped to resolve all this? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I can. But it will take some time. And I hope no one complains if they happen to be sourced from the replays on the network website, as there was a discrepancy in the number of episodes in Netflix. Borgenland (talk) 19:02, 28 August 2024 (UTC)