Talk:Malik Arslan

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Malik Arslan has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: September 30, 2024. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Malik Arslan appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 November 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Malik Arslan was assassinated on the orders of the Mamluk Sultan of Egypt due to his ties with the Ottomans?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Malik Arslan.

Wikipedia

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Malik Arslan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Aintabli (talk · contribs) 23:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs) 13:47, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

No images

Prose review

the Mamluk Sultan Sayf al-Din Inal (r. 1453–61) as a declaration of his allegiance to the Mamluk Sultanate. The Mamluk sultan favored - Why not use his name here?
Done
In the spring of 1365 - per MOS:SEASON, we should use an alternative to "spring", as that would be late 1365 in the southern hemisphere.
Changed to second quarter
The Mamluk Sultan Khushqadam sought Malik Arslan's support - Why not just "Khushqadam"?
Done
his proximity to - per Oxford, proximity refers to physical or temporal closeness; this was more of an alliance or a familiarity. Another synonym for "closeness" would work better here
Changed to ties
You link Turkmen to Turkoman (ethnonym) here but Oghuz Turks at Shah Budak. Which is correct?
I believe since one is a term for the other, the latter might be more appropriate than the former unless that term is specifically discussed or emphasized. I don't feel strong about it, and many articles do not follow this principle. This is more or less a grey area. Aintabli (talk) 03:00, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

All references appear reliable'

Comprehensiveness

Enter, Riding on an Elephant: How to Approach Early Ottoman Edirne gives Malik Arslan as the brother to Sittişah Hatun, and suggests that he escorted her to her wedding with Mehmed II. It also mentions a depiction of the two arriving in the Ottaman capital as serving as the frontispiece to a manuscript; if a digital copy is available online, that may offer us a (near?) contemporary depiction of Malik Arslan.
This is abolutely wonderful. I have found the publication that source referred to. Actually, I have seen that depiction of Malik Arslan before, but some poor-quality news sites implied it was Mehmed II's portrait, and I couldn't find any RS supporting it was Malik Arslan until now. So, I have uploaded the picture to Commons and cited the relevant source that identifies him as the man in the manuscript. Thank you! Aintabli (talk) 18:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's excellent! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:42, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeing any other sources, but I will have a look through the Wikipedia library when I get home.
I will follow up on this. Aintabli (talk) 03:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just tried a few different repositories. I see Wikilala has numerous sources mentioning "Malik" or "Melik Arslan", but based on a spotcheck of one 1941 publication these seem to be individuals who share the name. Searching for Malik or Melik Arslan plus Dulkadir gave me nothing. But then, I don't speak Turkish, so I don't know if there are any strings that could produce results. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Crisco 1492, Yes, there is at least one other Malik Arslan from the Seljuk dynasty and another in the Dulkadir dynasty. This isn't the main issue, though. Yinanç is such a definitive source that it is constantly cited by most other sources, which naturally do not reveal any new details on him and his reign. There are some bits that Yinanç does not mention. For example, I don't remember reading that Malik Arslan escorted his sister to her wedding in Yinanç's book (but I might have forgotten that part while editing). Two sources I know that complement the info obscured by Yinanç is Har-El and Öztuna's books. Other than that, it will probably take months until we can find a source that can add minuscule details that were missing. All in all, I was unable to find an extraordinary source with significant content to add to this article. I have added Singer, Öztuna and a few more citations for Har-El. Aintabli (talk) 16:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. If there aren't sources, there aren't sources. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know of a book that has a bunch of Armenian colophons [1], which are often ignored by historians concentrated in Islamic history. One colophon mentions Malik Arslan:

. .. [copied] in the year 928 of the Haykazean Era [A.D. 1479], during the amirate of Melik' Asian Tullatarc'i [Malik Arslan, the Dhu'lKadrid], of the nation of archers [azgin netolac'] . ..

Sadly, this doesn't include any clearly identifiable info on him. Aintabli (talk) 16:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article on Shah Budak indicates that Malik Arslan's son contested the throne as well; might be worth a mention here
Added it to the last section. Aintabli (talk) 03:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion

Short and sweet. This is very close to passing the GA review. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 13:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, based on this review, I believe that the article meets the GA criteria. Congratulations! If you are interested, the article can be nominated for the Did You Know? proess, with a fact from the article appearing on the main page. I am also able to nominate on your behalf, if need be. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rjjiii talk 16:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Malik Arslan, a Dulkadirid ruler in southern Anatolia, was assassinated on the orders of the Mamluk Sultan Sayf al-Din Khushqadam due to his ties with the Ottomans?

Source: * Har-El, Shai (1995). Struggle for Domination in the Middle East: The Ottoman-Mamluk War, 1485-91. E.J. Brill. p. 86. ISBN 9004101802. OCLC 624096003. Retrieved 19 March 2023.
Venzke, Margaret L. (2017). "Dulkadir". In Fleet, Kate; Krämer, Gudrun; Matringe, Denis; Nawas, John; Rowson, Everett (eds.). Encyclopaedia of Islam (3rd ed.). Brill Online. doi:10.1163/1573-3912_ei3_COM_27743. ISSN 1873-9830.
Yinanç, Refet (1989). Dulkadir Beyliği (in Turkish). Ankara: Turkish Historical Society Press. p. 61. ISBN 9751601711. OCLC 21676736.

Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Aintabli (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Aintabli (talk) 16:15, 7 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

I will review this. Thriley (talk) 21:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article has achieved Good Article status. No issues of copyvio or plagiarism. All sources appear reliable. Hook is interesting and sourced. QPQ is not needed as nominator has 5 or less nominations. Looks ready to go. Thriley (talk) 16:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- A comment before promoting: Har-El (1995) says it was "rumored" to be ordered by the Mamluk Sultan. @Aintabli: I couldn't access Yinanç (1989) cited in the article, so searched JSTOR and found this 2001 Venzke article that verified the rest of the rest of the hook. I thought I'd note this here in case it is useful, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 16:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]