Talk:Makówki

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Makowski link to different food recipe of German Mohnpielen

The German wiki article about Schlesische Küche [1] shows the same photo.

This Polish article Makowski is a completely different food, compare ingredients for Mohnpielen and this recipe for Makowski. I am therefore removing photo and connection to Mohnpielen.

Picture shows makówki. In show of Makówki (from Silesia and other) are very similar. PS. Author of this picture is Silesians. PS. Schlesische Küche in German = Silesian cuisine in English. LUCPOL (talk) 10:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then it is the wrong photo and the wrong link from Makowski to Mohnpielen.

I know Mohnpielen from my family very well. Mohnpilen are something completely different.

Ingredients: Mohn = English: Poppy seed(s), rolls or white bread or loaf cake, milk, rasins, Korinthen=currants?, almonds, sugar or honey or syrup, sugar and cinnamon

Mohnpielen recipe

Für die Zubereitung der Mohnpielen wird Mohnsaat gewaschen und gebrüht. Danach wird er gerieben und mit kalter Milch vermengt. Weißbrot oder süße Brötchen, wie Kuchen- oder Milchbrötchen, werden danach in Würfel geschnitten und mit Milch getränkt. Dann werden beide Massen vermengt, und mit typischen Weihnachtszutaten wie Rosinen, Korinthen und Mandeln vermischt. Je nach Geschmack werden die Pielen dann mit Zucker, Honig oder Sirup gesüßt.

Bei einer anderen Variante wird gemahlener Mohn in heißer Milch zum Quellen gebracht, mit Zucker und Bittermandel aromatisiert, und dann mit den übrigen Zutaten vermengt. Die Brötchen werden mit Läuterzucker getränkt und danach abwechselnd mit der Mohnmasse in einer Schale eingefüllt.

Typische Anrichteform ist in einer Glasschale, frisch mit Zucker und Zimt bestreut. Die Mohnpielen bildeten ein typisches Gericht an Silvester und Heiligabend.

Literarische Erwähnung finden die Mohnpielen in Theodor Fontanes Roman Vor dem Sturm.

Quellen

Mathilde Ehrhardt: Großes Illustriertes Kochbuch, Berlin 1904
Erhard Gorys: Das neue Küchenlexikon, München 2001

Greetings 12 April 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.201.57 (talk) 03:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mohnpielen then almost the same what Makówki. Makówki = Mohnpielen. If composition in article is different this improve. My English is weak. LUCPOL (talk) 08:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mohnpielen

You cannot tell that what you posted is completely different from the German Mohnpielen, which have as main ingredient Mohn = poppy seed(s) and white bread or rolls, milk, raisins etc.

Your English and your comprehension is indeed weak. The Makówki Wikipedia article shows a completely different food and is indeed falsely linked to the German Mohnpielen.

I will not correct it again, after all Wikipedia is full of incorrect statements and assumptions by people who's English is weak or barely existent, so what's one more false unfactual Wikipedia? Anyone interested in the Mohnpielen recipe can read it above. Greeting 13 April 2008

"You cannot tell that what you posted is completely different from the German Mohnpielen" - NO!!!! Makówki and Mohnpielen = the same. If the content of article is different - you alter this. Please, translate article pl:Makówki on English . LUCPOL (talk) 21:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I do not speak Polish, I cannot translate for you. This is supposed to be the English-language wikipedia. What you wrote about Makowski is completely different from Mohnpielen and the German Mohnpielen should not connect to your Polish Makowski entrance in the English Wikipedia. Have a nice day. 13 Apr 2008

Please, translate article de:Mohnpielen on English. LUCPOL (talk) 10:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request to move name of dish to historical correct name Mohnpielen

I inserted a number of references in literature since 1836 all for Mohnpielen, a Northern German dessert, particularly from Mark Brandenburg, also Schlesien Silesian.

The first book I could find for the recent Polish name Makówki is a Polish book from about 2000, even there it is referred to as Silesian cuise.

Several references were removed, so here again: Mohnpielen from northern Germany, particularly the Mark Brandenburg and Berlin^[1], ^[2], ^[3], ^[4], ^[5], ^[6], ^[7], ^[8] as well as from Silesia, where they are known in (Lower Silesian: Mohnkließla as well as Mohnpielen, Hungarian: Mákos Guba) is a traditional dessert (poppy seed "dumplings") served usually on Christmas Eve (and perhaps on the following days, as long as the supply prepared for Christmas lasts). Now sometimes also listed in Polish sources about Silesian cuisine, they are called in Polish language Makówki. A similar dish, but with slices of Kifli (Kipferl) in Hungary is called Mákos Guba

The main ingredient are: sweet white bread and finely ground poppy seeds boiled in milk with butter. Other important ingredients include: dried fruit (figs, raisins, apricots, dates, etc.) almonds and other kinds of nuts (the choice of nuts and dried fruit varies). It is flavoured with sugar, honey, vanilla, cinnamon and rum.

The bread is cut into thin slices and layered in a clay pot or more often into a glass or crystal bowl. After each layer, the sauce of the boiled poppy seeds, with flavouring and nuts, is poured so that the bread is well soaked. The top is decorated with some extra nuts and fruit. The dish is served cold, at least several hours after preparation.

Mohnpielen are well known in earlier German literature and a number of Historical publications from Brandenburg and Berlin. Julius Stinde wrote about Familie Buchholz, Theodor Fontane in his travels through Mark Brandenburg wrote about Mohnpilen^[9] and other dishes, and Lovis Corinth descibes how he always makes them. An Observer(70.133.71.84 (talk) 19:21, 7 March 2009 (UTC)) References[reply]

^ Mohnpielen in books by 1900
^ Book from 1836, Mark Brandenburg, Mohnpielen
^ 1862 book: Northern Germany, Germanic Mythology, to eat seeded foods (particularly Mohnpielen) to ward off bad spirits during twelve days frost
^ Brandenburg Mohnpielen, 1868 book
^ 1885 book: Mohnpielen], Die Familie Buchholz, Julius Stinde
^ 1899 book, Mohnpielen Brandenburg Heimatkunde –Regional history
^ Mark Brandenburg Mohnpielen Georg, Rietschel, 1902 book
^ Paul Drechsler, Sitten und Braeuche in Schlesien, in Brandenburg, Mohnpielen 1903 book
^ Theodor Fontane, Mohnpilen and other dishes

I do not see why not to move it to another name if that name is a historically earlier one. Besides, it is not the name that makes this dessert ;) If you decide to move, I would suggest that you leave a re-direct from makowki to Mohnpielen because, to my understanding, it is the same Silesian foodstuff; it just somehow acquired a variety of names. Stan J. Klimas (talk) 02:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Poppy seed dumplings???

Not sure what it is about the poppy seed dumplings in the article head. I assume it is a misunderstanding or mistranslation because the footstuff described in this article (no matter how it is called) surely does not resemble any dumplings. Therefore, I will remove the reference to dumplings. If somebody wished to have the dumplings back, s/he should probably give more details about them to avoid confusion. Stan J. Klimas (talk) 01:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Klimas,

Mohnpielen, also Mohnkließla (Kloeße= English translation: small dumplings). While usually dumplings are made from raw food material and are simmered in (sailed) water, the poppy seed dumplings are just saturated in milk. They do not need the cooking, because sliced white bread or rolls (already done, ready to eat) are used.

Thanks for attempting to sort the different names. The whole description, as it is now, is however wrong. The Mohnpielen, Mohnspeise or dumplings, as one can read in the number of literature added, are an ancient German traditional food. The part that must be left in the glass bowl is earlier referred to as Frau Holde's or Frau Goden's and other names. It is a combination of Christmas and pre-christian Germanic mythology. It is therefore not a Polish food Makowki, that is also known as Mohnpielen in Brandenburg. The Hungarian Makos -mak is the word for poppyseed, as well as mak in Bohemian (Czech) language. The Saxon Germans in Siebenbuergen, now Hungary, also called the part left in the bowl Frau Holde's parts, as one can read in the 19th century literature and recipes added.

Question to anyone, what earlier Polish recipe books describe the Polish cuisine Makówki, other than very recent one(s), which call it Silesian cuisine? (70.133.71.84 (talk) 20:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC))[reply]

About the names of Makówki in other languages

There is a discussion wheather the name of the dish schould remain as it is or schould it be translated into German.

Here are the results of Google Books search of the names in question.

1. Makówki - 624 results

2. Makówki Śląsk - 143 results (Śląsk Polish for Silesia)

3. Makówki danie (makówki dish) - 50 results

4. Mohnkließla - 1 result

5. Mohnpilen - 21 results

6. Mákos Guba - 177 results

I hope that now the discussion will end becouse it can be easily seen that the German names dont appear in the books as often as the other names.

Cheers 213.238.123.192 (talk) 17:04, 16 March 2009 (UTC) 213.238.123.192 (talk) 17:06, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About Mohnpielen (in Polish Wikipedia as Makówki)

This needs to be renamed to Mohnpielen or Mohnklöße

There are 375 books with Mohnpielen, Mohnklöße, Mohnspeise (see google book search results below). There are an admittet 10 books in Polish about Makówki (see below).

Reply to false statement made above

Those are only 10 examles out of over 600. Dont falsify the facts. We have also: Makówki Śląsk - 143 results (Śląsk Polish for Silesia) and Makówki danie (makówki dish) - 50 results corresponding directly to the dish. As well as Mákos Guba - 177 results, which you also did not mention.

We also dont know how many of those German books actually talk about a dish and how many of them also use the Silesian/Polish name: Makówki. 213.238.122.164 (talk) 23:07, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Text for Mohnpielen:

Mohnpielen from northern Germany, particularly the Mark Brandenburg and Berlin^[1], ^[2], ^[3], ^[4], ^[5], ^[6], ^[7], ^[8] as well as from Silesia, where they are known in (Lower Silesian: Mohnkließla as well as Mohnpielen, Hungarian: Mákos Guba) is a traditional dessert (poppy seed "dumplings") served usually on Christmas Eve (and perhaps on the following days, as long as the supply prepared for Christmas lasts).

The preparation of this food goes back to ancient German pre-christian tradition, when during the frost days many seeded foods were prepared in order to assure a rich harvest. It was combined with Christmas tradition, but a part must be left in the bowl for a later meal. The remaining part is called Frau Holde (Goden, Perchta)'s Teil

Now sometimes also listed in Polish sources about Silesian cuisine, they are called in Polish language Makówki. A similar dish, but with slices of Kifli (Kipferl) was brought to Hungary by German as well and is now called Mákos Guba.

The main ingredient are: sweet white bread and finely ground poppy seeds boiled in milk with butter. Other important ingredients include: dried fruit (figs, raisins, apricots, dates, etc.) almonds and other kinds of nuts (the choice of nuts and dried fruit varies). It is flavoured with sugar, honey, vanilla, cinnamon and rum.

The rolls or bread are cut into thin slices, cubed and layered in a clay pot or more often into a glass or crystal bowl. After each layer, the sauce of the boiled poppy seeds, with flavouring and nuts, is poured so that the bread is well soaked. The top is decorated with some extra nuts and fruit. The dish is served cold, at least several hours after preparation.

Mohnpielen are well known in earlier German literature and a number of Historical publications from Brandenburg and Berlin. Julius Stinde wrote about Familie Buchholz, Theodor Fontane in his travels through Mark Brandenburg wrote about Mohnpilen^[9] and other dishes, and Lovis Corinth descibes how he always makes them.

Notes

^ Mohnpielen in books by 1900
^ Book from 1836, Mark Brandenburg, Mohnpielen
^ 1862 book: Northern Germany, Germanic Mythology, to eat seeded foods (particularly Mohnpielen) to ward off bad spirits during twelve days frost
^ Brandenburg Mohnpielen, 1868 book
^ 1885 book: Mohnpielen], Die Familie Buchholz, Julius Stinde
^ 1899 book, Mohnpielen Brandenburg Heimatkunde –Regional history
^ Mark Brandenburg Mohnpielen Georg, Rietschel, 1902 book
^ Paul Drechsler, Sitten und Braeuche in Schlesien, in Brandenburg, Mohnpielen 1903 book
^ Theodor Fontane, Mohnpilen and other dishes

Google book search Makówki Actual Results 2-3 books about Makówki food, more than 600 show Polish text of completely different matter.

Google book search

Mohnpielen = Result 171 books about Mohnpielen food
Mohnklöße = Mohnklöße = Results 158 books
Mohnspeise = Mohnspreise = Result 46 books

(Total: 375 books)

(70.133.65.117 (talk) 20:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Those were the names you've put here yourself so if those results are nonsense to you it is not my fault.213.238.122.164 (talk) 22:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mohnspreise = Result 46 books No results at all (sic!)
Mohnkloesse = Result 158 books actually only 1 book (sic!) 213.238.122.164 (talk) 21:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thats not egzactly true. Here are 10 books from those results that tell about Makówki - dish:

Naturally most of the results for Makówki Śląsk (Silesia) - 143 and Makówki danie (dish) - 50 show only the results considering the foodstuf. Each of them alone outnumbers the results for Mohnkließla and Mohnpilen taken togeather - 22. 213.238.122.164 (talk) 21:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Following are results of Polish search:

From the talk page of the Makówki article.