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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

Revisionism At Work?

Would someone please verify, with indisputable evidence, that the image "260px-Tunku_abdul_rahman31.jpg" as being an actual taken photograph? The image seems to be a doctored one i.e. a composite of two photos being merged together. The image of Tunku and Dr. M holding hands, especially during Tunku's twilight years does not seem to resonate with my knowledge of the relationship between this two personalities.

It is little known, except to those in the know or those whom are familiar with M'sian politics, that Dr. M was a bitter critic of Tunku when the latter was P.M. Suffice to say, Tunku gave to him 'lock, stock, and two smoking barrels' by 'expelling' him from UMNO, among other things. Even to the end of his days, Tunku, may God bless his soul, remained a political opponent of Dr. M.

Seems to me there is revisionist out there who's attempting to make Dr. M look good(?). Kind of reminds me of a book that is now being touted as being first(!) published in 1971 instead of BEFORE 1969(!!!). And I thought only Communists had the luxury of accusing others for being 'revisionists'.

Babyrina2 04:39, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I would like to add, during the Tunku's time and until Mahathir become Prime Minister, there were two group, the royalty and normal citizen. This two group were fighting for power, most Prime Minister before Mahathir has royalty blood. The royalty lost they grip on power when Tungku Razeligh fail to win the party election for president which was won by Mahathir.

Tunku Abdul Rahman could not be said as to be more popular then Mahathir. Mahathir achieve to reduce the royalty power during his tenure, including by changging the constitution law that alow the court to punish royalty for any crime they made.

Early discussion

Does anyone know: Is bin capitizalized at the start of a sentence?-- Viajero 08:54 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)~

yes, it is usually cap'ed __earth 16:16, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)
However it is rare you should use bin at the start of a sentence since it is rare you should refer to someone as bin. The bin Laden family is one exception but I'm not so sure whether Osama should be referred to as bin Laden Nil Einne 14:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • bin* means =son of=. as oppose to *binti*, which means =daughter of=. therefore, it is rare that a sentence or a name to begin with *bin* or *binti*. last name for a muslim are usually paternal, and a woman who marries still keeps it and not change to her husband's. thus it is better to refer to their first names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.97.12.50 (talk) 06:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, I don't think his "economic nationalism" is controversial or disputed. Rather his methods... --Viajero 09:01 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Concerning 'BIN'

Hi there!

Just thought I'd try to help clear out any confusions concerning the word 'bin' that is usually found in Asians' (particularly Malays) names.

In a Malay name, the format are as follows: 1) AAA bin BBB or 2) CCC binti DDD

The first format is for a male while the 2nd one is for a female. Unlike Western names, most Asian names do not have any family names. The 'AAA' is the first name while the 'BBB' is the father's name. Same goes for the 'CCC' and 'DDD'. The word 'BIN' actually means 'son of' where as 'BINTI' means 'daughter of'.

So, when Malays such as myself goes off overseas, we often get confused because people tend to call us by our 'supposedly' surname. For example, my name is Anis binti Hamzah, but I would be called Ms. Binti Hamzah or Ms. Hamzah. It's quite funny though, coz the person is actually calling out 'daughter of Hamzah'.

I hope the brief explanation was helpful. Any inquiries about the Malays in general, can mail me at suzanis@graffiti.net

Thanks for the helpful explanation. Maybe this can added to one of the standard help pages. -- Viajero 06:27, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Just want to clarify a bit further. Actually, most Asian names DO have family surnames. These include people of Chinese descent (Singaporeans, Chinese Malaysians, etc), Thais, Burmese, Vietnamese, Koreans and Japanese. Example of a Chinese Malaysian name: Lee Ah Beng, Lee being the surname and Ah Beng being the first name (since east asian names have the surnames up front. His son's name could then be Lee Ah Chu.
Indian Malaysians (or Indians in general) only have their parent(s)' name after their first name, in a way similar to most Malays and Indonesians. Exceptions are Indians of upper caste background; they might have a inherited surname together with their parent(s)' name - such inherited surnames (which could be seen as a title) also exist for Malays of royal blood. Example of a Malay name: Mahmud Tengku Abdullah, where Mahmud is the first name, Tengku is a royal surname and Abdullah is the father's name. His son's name, should he choose to name his son Aziz, would be Aziz Tengku Mahmud. -- ChuaMan 08:07, 29 Aug 2006 (UTC)
I want to add a comment to this discussion also (although we're getting really off-topic now :)). It's good to avoid "first name" and "surname" when discussing international names, as they imply an ordering ("sur-" is a suffix meaning "at the end"). The terms "given name" and "family name" are generally better understood (given name is the name unique to you; family name is the name you "inherit"). It applies better to European and Chinese-style names than Malay (family name is a bit misleading for Malay names as it only continues for one generation), but is generally clearer than "first name" and "surname". Chovain 01:46, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Quotes

After due consideration, I have moved the following quotes here:

On October 16, 2003, he said in a speech to the Organisation of the Islamic Conference that "The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them," which prompted condemnations from the EU, USA, Israel, and Australia, among others, and the Malaysian opposition party Democratic Action Party. Condemnation from Australia was especially rare, as that nation has ignored Mahathir's rhetoric in the past.
"We cannot fight them (the Jews) through brawn alone, we must use our brains also," said in an speech to the Organisation of the Islamic Conference on October 16.
"Even among the Jews there are many who do not approve of what the Israelis are doing." (same speech?cf Neturei Karta)

I read the entire speech [1] and feel that to use his words in this way in the article to quote them out of context. (To be sure, his choice of words was not felicitous.) If anyone feels strongly otherwise, let's discuss it here. -- Viajero 18:07, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I have also read the speech in full, and I would say that it is anti-Semitic. He plainly used the Jews as the bogeyman, so to speak, and knowledge and science as not the end rather the means of destroying the Jews. Remember, the "Jews rules the world" myth had been used by Hitler in the Holocaust, Stalin in the Gulags, along with other Arab dictatorships, especially Iraq in the 50s to justify pogroms, exile and/or genocide. -- rajanr
And that's so different from Dubya's antisemitism, using Arabs as bogeymen. Besides, the apology for the EU poll[2] proves Mahathir's not all wrong.
Concerns about Bush should be discussed on the Bush page. Not everything is about Bush or America. The discussion here is about Mahathir and his view of Jewish people. Do you have any thoughts you would like to share on that matter?--Malbear 12:41, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I also think that it shouldn't be said that the isseue was largely ignored in malaysia...because let's face it, any news out of america is big news everywhere else in the world.

Query

Hi Andrew,

I am curious as to why you deleted this text:

This statement alarmed Malaysian moderates who fear that Malaysia's British-based common law is being degraded and sharia will be extended to Malaysia's non-Muslim population, notably the large population of ethnic Chinese.

It was expressed by a member of Malaysia's Indian minority. I derived it from here: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/15/1050172597745.html

You added this text yesterday:

Nonetheless, largely due to the economic development of the country, which by and large has benefited all races, he leaves behind a

peaceful and confident Malaysia.

Yet media reports suggest that certain inter-ethnic tensions remain and I think it would important to report this, if it is indeed the case. I mean, two northern provinces are now already governed by sharia!

I look forward to your comments. Thanks, -- Viajero 08:55, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Honorific

Hi again Andrew,

In conformance with Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), I have unbolded dato' seri (I also added Mahathir bin Mohamad as an example). People may not immediately know that it is an Malay honorific, but they will after they read the article ;-).

As for the Dr, we tend not to use this and other titles for English-language articles. See for example Albert Schweitzer or Henry Kissinger.

Hi, For Malaysian society, honorific or title is very important and most people "bought" it rather than "achieved". It represents social class and come very useful to climb the society and economic status. It has became tool to get easy loan or land or business opportunities.


-- Viajero 09:18, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)

mv one line from article here

I have moved the following line here:

It has, however been put to better uses recently; it has been used against dangerous groups of Islamic militants and terror groups.

It is rather POV. -- Viajero 14:09, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Picture

Surely we can find a better picture of Mahathir than the pathetic one that is there. Any volunteers? -- Malbear 12:42, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The 2004 photograph is dire and does Dr M a disservice, whatever your opinion of him. However, having two pictures at the top is excessive.Quiensabe 21:29, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)
I've reinstated my unfortunately not the best but GFDL image http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Image:SMS0418_Mahathir_c.jpg , while waiting for a better GFDL/Free image of Dr M. --sabre23t 11:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Added:Medical school

"This eventually became the Medical Faculty of the University of Malaya. It eventually became the Medical Faculty of the National University of Singapore (bearing the original name). Thus Mahathir is an alumnus of both universities."

Was always unclear as to why both schools refered to him as alumnus. --Malbear 13:13, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

To do:Adopted

"they have seven children Marina, Mirzan, Melinda, Mokhzani, Mukhriz, Maizura, and Mazhar and ten grandchildren." I believe a long time ago there was a whole long string of articles about themadopting children. Are all 7 listed there biological children or are some adopted?--Malbear 13:13, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Mahathir has 3 natural sons, 2 natural daughters and 2 adopted children --ChuaMan 8:45, 29 Aug 2006 (UTC)

Removed:unproven cronyism

"While officially not proven, it is generally accepted that the vast majority of government members and entrepreneurs unjustly enriched themselves under Mahathir's rule, with his tacit approval."

This statement needs a citation of some sort else it is just a "surat layang" by any other name.


Citation Requested: IMF and soros endorsement

"As the Malaysian economy recovered, the IMF and George Soros released statements saying that Mahathir's policies had indeed been the right ones"

Can someone find a cite for this? Personally I doubt they came right out and said it clearly but stranger things have happened.

According to [Asia Times ]: ...Perhaps the most surprising endorsement of capital controls came from the International Monetary Fund, which had stridently opposed the action last year. IMF Board members broadly agreed that the regime of capital controls - which was intended by the authorities to be temporary - had produced more positive results than many observers had initially expected, according to a summary of a July board meeting released September 8....

Please see: http://pgoh13.free.fr/mahathir_IMF.html Quote: The International Monetary Fund (IMF) said Malaysia's approach to peg the ringgit in dealing with the Asian financial crisis was the correct move. "With hindsight, we have to recognise the good performance of the economy. Mahathir was right," said the fund's managing director Horst Koehler, referring to the decision in September 1998 by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad in the aftermath of the currency crash.

Hmmmm. Those two sources say very different things. One just says that the IMF says that a certain policy has produiced "more positive results than many observers had initially expected." The other credits the IMF with going much further than that, saying that what Mahathir did was right, not just "better than expected"! his conflict of sources makes the situation even more interesting than it had been. And we've so far left the portion of the original statement that named Soros out of our accounts. User:Christofurio|Christofurio]] 21:00, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Embelish please:Fiscal policies

"Perhaps the prudent fiscal and monetary policies have ensured that the Malaysian economy, while not growing as spectacularly as before, is well balanced and not built on questionable fundamentals. "

Can someone fill in some details and examples. Without them this is just cheerleading.

Re-write: Doom and gloom

"Long term structural considerations, such as the uncompetitiveness of Malaysian firms, the failure of Malaysian industry to move up the value chain in the face of increasing costs and competition from other countries in the region (most notably China) as well as lack of results in R&D, still cloud the horizon, and Malaysia's long term prospects appear to be deeply uncertain if not bleak."

Can someone re-write this?


Recommend removal: Anwar

"In separate trials, Anwar was sentenced to six years in prison for corruption and nine years prison for sodomy, to be served concurrently. Both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch expressed serious doubts about the fairness of the trials.[3] [4]

The Anwar crisis sparked unprecedented massive protests by Malaysians, of all ethnic groups, and many of Anwar's supporters from UMNO regrouped around the intellectual-Muslim "Parti Keadilan Nasional" (National Justice Party). Despite faring well for a new party in the 1999 elections, the party foundered in the 2004 elections, with Anwar's wife, Dr. Wan Azizah Wan Ismail left as the only Keadilan member of parliament. "

This can be viewed on the Anwar page and is relevant there. I fail to see the relevance here?

I think it displays how Mahathir's actions in removing Anwar changed the political scene in Malaysia. It could be summarised a little bit more, though. Johnleemk | Talk 13:50, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is one sided and does not even attempt to tell the whole story. This whole page should be re-titled "How Mahathir's opponents view him."

Recomend removal: PAS

"Despite this, PAS only captured the state of Terengganu in the 1999 elections, and failed to retain it in the next election. This was largely seen to be due to PAS' fundamentalist Islamic policies, as they had introduced Islamic sharia laws into Terengganu and their other stronghold, Kelantan. These laws included banning various forms of entertainment, and mandatory wearing of the hijab for women, regardless of religion. Many political analysts felt that this had prevented PAS from making major gains, keeping the reins of power firmly in Mahathir's hands, as the non-Malay voters were turned off by the perceived religious fundamentalism of PAS."

What the heck does PAS election thing have to do with Mahathir anyway?

I think it shows how the electorate chose Mahathir over PAS, although I do think it could use some summarising. Johnleemk | Talk 13:50, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Removed: Ministry allocation

Health and transport has always been MCA and Works has always been MIC. Finance was an aberation as originally it was held by Tan Siew Sin who was removed since he refused to allow deficit spending. In a country where Courts Mammoth can become the biggest furniture store by offering "tanpa cengkeram" anyone disallowing deficit spending will surely see the door in finance. Good man, bad politician, tough break. Although it can also be argued that there has always been a debate amongst Economists Keynesian and otherwise, on whether or not deficit spending is good or bad under different circumstances.

Altered: Scholarships

"Malay scholarships are another major problem as these are more often given to the children of the well connected and affluent Malays at the expense of the children of poor Malay farmers/settlers/fishermen."

To

"Public scholarships are another issue of contention as there is a perception that these are given to the children of those who are connected and affluent giving the perception that these awards are not based on merit. Those who believe that scholarships should be given based on need would rather see it go to poor people who are often stereotyped as farmers/settlers/fishermen. However, none of these scholarships claim to be given on a basis of need."

1) There are no Malay scholarships. If the Malay community wishes to set up a scholarship fund (like Mendaki in Singapore) then they are welcome to give it to only Malays. Sort of like how the Hokkien association only gives "academic prizes" to Hokkien people etc. The issues is that these are "public scholarships" funded by the taxes of the rakyat.

2) We do not know if they are "more often" given to such people. (Unless you have a cite or a figure). We do however know that they are perceived to be given to such people. Example 100 people get scholarships, one is datuks son, there is perception that scholarships are given to those who are not "needy".

Request Cite: NS

"At the instigation of Defence Minister Najib Tun Razak (now Deputy Prime Minister)"

I am inclined (70%) to believe this is true but without a cite I will bet dollars to bananas that someone will come along and challenge it...

Summarising

I'm beginning to think we're overloading this article with irrelevant information. A lot of the material here would fit in better with National Service in Malaysia or the various election articles. We ought to summarise these longwinded details and condense them. Much of the information fits in better elsewhere.

True we could start a new page with the same title as a proposed mandatory course in local unis (thankfully never implemented) - "The thoughts of Dr. Mahathir" :) [this is a loooooong article. Why did I ever try to start eating this elephant]

Removed:Australia into Asean

"Mahathir's government is also widely perceived as putting efforts to exclude Australia from South East Asian intergovernmental agreements, such as ASEAN."

Tried googling since this rings false. No record of Australia ever wanting to join ASEAN. If anything the asian perception is that Australia is too "white", hence the Hanson concerns. It is part of Asia (regionally) yet tries to be part of Europe. Anyway please find a cite for this...--Malbear 14:05, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Re-organize: Stance on terror

"He has, however, taken a very strong stance for the war on terror, cooperating with neighbours Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia in flushing out terrorist insurgencies, while at the same time cracking down ruthlessly on suspected militants back home."

Someone move this where appropriate because it doesn't say a thing about Mahathir and Australia (the section).

Quotations from Mahathir

Mahathir is the master of the juicy quote, so please add in anything you can attribute to Wikiquote — esp. if somebody can find the full text of the famous "Jews rule the world by proxy" quote. Jpatokal 06:38, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The "full text" meaning the whole speech? That would be worth an external link. --Christofurio 20:11, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

"The Muslims will forever be oppressed and dominated by the Europeans and the Jews. It cannot be that there is no other way. 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews. There must be a way. We are actually very strong. 1.3 billion people cannot be simply wiped out. The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. They survived 2000 years of pogroms not by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With these they have now gained control of the most powerful countries and they, this tiny community, have become a world power. Of late because of their power and their apparent success they have become arrogant. And arrogant people, like angry people will make mistakes, will forget to think." Purple Rose 11:32, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NPOV dispute

I think that the NPOV tag on this article is appropriate. The article seems to be, to a certain extent, a soapbox for Mahathir's critics, and does not reflect the fact that he is widely respected throughout the Third World for his successful challenges to the policies of the IMF. Consequently, he became a special target of rage for the Anglo-American financial interests and the news media they control, which have vigorously supported and promoted his various opponents, not wishing to confront him directly themselves. --HK 14:32, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the POV tag. If anyone has specific issues with this article, they need to list them here. Viajero | Talk 21:17, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to ask where User:Herschelkrustofsky gets the interpretation of events that he lists. Is there a source? -Willmcw 22:34, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

affirmative action statement

With regards to comparing the US to Malaysia's affirmative action policies, there *is* a substantial black middle class in the USA [5]. The fact that the economically deprived subgroup is a minority group is also radically different to the Malaysian situation, where it is/was the ethnic minority Chinese who are economically powerful. Hence, I'll remove the comparison with the USA--01:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

vandalisme

this article contains 'pure' vandalisms! since when mahathir is an Indian?

plus the citations references also not reliable... Izzudin (talk) 12:11, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
It is known, i think, that Mahathir has Indian roots. But i agree that the citation is not reliable. And its not notable enough to be included in the lead section. However, i might be worth a mention somewhere else in the article (that he has indian roots). Not so sure about the name. kawaputratorque 12:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Mahathir's father was an Indian immigrant from Kerala; this is well-documented. Anyone with a proper biography of Mahathir's should be able to provide a reference for this. Johnleemk | Talk 13:11, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Johnleemk, I expect that you have the source of your statement because you know about this. Just put the book's name and ISBN code, for example. Because you said that it is well-documented, I bet you know some of the books or documents regarding your statement. Thanks... We need to improve the quality of this really really important article! Izzudin (talk) 12:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I already provided a citation. As I was saying, any comprehensive biography of Mahathir's will mention this. Googling alone will reveal a surfeit of news stories and opinion pieces remarking on his Indian ancestry. Johnleemk | Talk 16:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Mahathir is an Indian ancestry although he is widely considered as a Malay. He is one of the the greatest Malaysian PM in history. I hope that this article will be the featured article in English Wikipedia. — Imran Al-Sahih 16:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Johnleemk, your citations provided are from an unknown (not famous) blogs or personal sites that is not considered as reliable reference for Wikipedia. For the best, please provide book name and ISBN number or reference from well-known sites. I may believe one of his ancestors is Indian but really don't believe his name was ..something kutty.. izzudin 11:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Imran, the topic might have the elements to be featured, but this article contains so many rubbishes! izzudin 11:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
That his father was Indian cannot be disputed, but I never said anything about his name (I can't think of any biographies which give the Kutty name). Also, a news website is not a blog or personal site. You seem to have not bothered to look it up on Google either, since if you did you would realise that there is a plethora of news websites all referring to Mahathir's Indian ancestry. Johnleemk | Talk 05:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I tried googling with keyword 'Mahathir Indian' and none of the first page's results display any well-known websites. If only you can give me a link to the reliable source you found. izzudin 08:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I found an article from India Today, follow this link. kawaputratorque 12:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Another by Bowring for the IHT [6] __earth (Talk) 13:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
India Today says that Mahathir's grandfather is from Kerala not his father. But Bowring says his father was a teacher from India. This is confusing. Still need trusted and certified reference to confirm about this. I'm not saying that I strongly disagree Mahathir have an Indian ancestry, I just want to be sure about this. izzudin 15:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't see how it can be confusing. They are not contradictory and India Today does not say the father is not from Kerala. One source says the grandfather was from Kerala and another source says the father was from India. Based on the sources, which are quite reliable, it is only logical that both the father and the granddad were actually from India.__earth (Talk) 16:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
We need to confirm is it his Grandfather or his Father is an immigrant from Kerala. izzudin 13:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC) ...and why do India today need to write Mahathir's grandfather is an Indian if they can write that it is his father. That confused me... izzudin 13:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
If one source says your father is from country A and another sources says your father is from country A too, would be you confused? __earth (Talk) 13:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
We are talking about a source saying Mahathir's father is from Kerala while the other source say nothing about his father. I am stressing here, why would India today state that Mahathir's grandfather is from India if they can say his father instead. (my english may not be so good) izzudin 19:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Does it contradict with each other? __earth (Talk) 02:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Regardless the issue, the two sources cannot be used because they are opinion pieces. We need better sources. __earth (Talk) 12:37, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to clear the air after Sean wrote me a note. The Universiti Utara Malaysia website states:

Dalam autobiografinya, Dr Mahathir mengatakan bahawa dia mempunyai keturunan orang India (daripada bapanya) yang mempunyai kaitan dengan Kerala, India, yang mana ibunya adalah orang Melayu yang dilahirkan di Kedah. Walau bagaimanapun, dia mengganggapkan diri sebagai Melayu yang tulin.

The translation is as follows:

"In his autobiography, Dr Mahathir says that he is descended from an Indian (from his father) who has links with Kerala, India, while his mother is a Malay, born in Kedah. However, he considers himself to be a pure Malay."

Tranungkite.net, PAS Youth Center for Information and Missionary Work, Dungun, Terengganu, says:

"Disini saya hendak tanya orang Islam, Melayu dan rakyat Malaysia seluruhnya bolehkah kita mempercayai seorang Perdana Menteri yang sanggup menipu nama Bapa dan Mak sendiri? Adalah HARAM menyebut atau memanggil nama Perdana Menteri kita Mahathir Bin Mohamad kerana bapanya bukan bernama Mohammad. Kalau bapanya bernama Siskandar Kutty biarlah kita menyebut Perdana Menteri kita Mahathir anak lelaki Siskandar Kutty. Kenapa malu sangat akan nama bapa sendiri sehingga sanggup menipu seluruh dunia akan nama bapa sendiri? Bukan itu sahaja Perdana Menteri kita juga sanggup menipu keturunan dan agama Bapa dan Datok beliau sendiri. Datok kepada Mahathir ialah seorang Paderi Hindu yang terkenal di Cochin, India dan bapa beliau Alhamdulillah memeluk Islam hanya apabila berada di Tanah Melayu ditangan orang Melayu. (Ini akan didedahkan dimasa yang sesuai)"

Translated, it reads as follows:

"Here I would like to ask Muslims, Malays, and Malaysian citizens whether we can trust a Prime Minister who is prepared to cheat his father and mother's name. It's illegal (as in Islamic laws) to call our Prime Minister, Mahathir bin Mohamad, because his father is not Mohamad*. If his father is Siskandar Kutty, let us call our Prime Minister Mahathir s/o Siskandar Kutty. Why be ashamed of his own father's name until he is prepared to cheat the whole world regarding his father's own name? Not just that, our Prime Minister is also prepared to cheat the lineage and religion of his own father and grandfather. Mahathir's grandfather is a famous Hindu priest in Cochin, India and his deceased father embraced Islam only after Malaya was in the hands of the Malays. (This will be revealed when the time is appropriate.)"

However, the photo caption at Page 24 of Mahathir of Malaysia: Statesman and Leader by Robin Adshead (1989) ISBN 1 87242 00 5 says: "This portrait of Dr. Mahathir's father, Encik Mohamad Iskandar who played an influential part in moulding the character of the future Prime Minsiter, still hangs on the wall of the little house in Jalan Sebarang Perak in Alor Setar where Mahathir spent his boyhood." So it does seem that there is nothing wrong with the name "Mahathir bin Mohamad." The book does not say anything about an Indian ancestry. If anything, a casual reading seems to make one have the impression that his father is Malay by descent (not by legal definition). — PM Poon (talk) 05:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Can e-malabari.net, the web portal of the Malabari's of Malaysia, be considered authoritative enough? It says:

"The list of famous Malabaris of the period cannot be complete without the mention of one Iskandar, who was of Kerala Muslim descent. His son, Mohammed Iskandar was born of a Malay woman (Siti Hawa). Mohammed Iskandar eventually left Penang to settle in Kedah and subsequently acquired fame as an English teacher and as the first headmaster of Alor Star’s first English School (now known as Maktab Sultan Abdul Samad). Mohammad Iskandar married a Malay, Wan Tampawan, and the union produced nine children. The youngest, Mahathir bin Mohammad Iskandar, rose to become the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia (Morais, 1982: 2)."

NOTE: If this is correct, then Mahathir's grandfather is a Malayan immigrant and not his dad. — PM Poon (talk) 06:57, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

  • This discussion took place before Wain's 2009 biography. Wain says (on page 5) "A forbear, most likely Mohamad's father Iskandar, had emigrated from Southern India". Wain then quotes Mahathir as saying the Indian immigrant was either Iskandar or Iskandar's father. There's too much doubt about whether Mahathir's grandfather was from India to state it as fact. We do know that Mahathir has Indian ancestry through his father's side. That is sufficient for the article to note. --Mkativerata (talk) 02:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Cambridge Encyclopedia

"Born in Alor Setar, the capital of the northern state of Kedah, Mahathir said in his autobiography that he had Indian ancestry (from his father), with its origins tracing back to Kerala in India, while his mother was a Kedah-born Malay. Mahathir, however, considers himself to be a "full Malay", in line with Article 160 of the Constitution." (Source: http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/14127/Mahathir-bin-Mohamad.html)

Is this source authoritative enough? — PM Poon (talk) 07:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Mahathir Mohamad Iskandar Kutty

The source are suspect. Both sources that provide the name are blogs of unknown reputation. It is possible to have better and more reputable source? Else, it should be removed. __earth (Talk) 08:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The name should be like: Mahathir bin Mohamad bin Iskandar, if want to put the Iskandar but it is not required and will look odd. 'Kutty' however cannot be confirmed. izzudin 10:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's entry for Kutty, it is a suffix meaning 'son'. So, in a sense it has the same function as bin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.236.225 (talk) 13:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Mahathir's father is Encik Mohamad Iskandar. Thus, there is nothing wrong with the name, Mahathir bin Mohamad, or should it be Mahathir bin Mohamad Iskandar? We know many names where Mohamad Something is not Mohamad bin Something, eg. Mohamad Ali bin Mohamad Rustam. Could Mohamad Iskandar then be like Cassius Clay who became Muhammad Ali? — PM Poon (talk) 06:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Some removal

I removed these paragraphs as they seem not to be greatly relevant to this article. Plus it sounds like some pro-BN propaganda.

UMNO heads were seen by opposition supporters as corrupt politicians more focused on power and economic gain, as Mahathir was only interested in their total loyalty.[citation needed] PAS leveraged this into a selling point by promising a clean, Islamic administration. Despite this, PAS only captured the state of Terengganu in the 1999 elections, and failed to retain it in the next election. This was largely seen to be due to PAS' fundamentalist Islamic policies, as they had introduced Islamic sharia laws into Terengganu and their other stronghold, Kelantan. These laws included banning various forms of entertainment, and mandatory wearing of the headscarf for female civil servants. Many political analysts felt that this had prevented PAS from making major gains, keeping the reins of power firmly in Mahathir's hands, as the non-Malay voters were turned off by the perceived religious fundamentalism of PAS. Also, Mahathir remained popular among many Malaysians, and the third world.[citation needed]
Ministries were allotted to all component parties of the Barisan Nasional. Even non-Malay parties obtained the ministerships of key ministries such as Health (MCA), Transport (MCA), and the Works Ministry (MIC). Certain ministries were also shared with one party traditionally getting the ministers post and another party getting the deputy ministership. This was standard coalition politics as with all other coalition governments who wanted to ensure everyone got a slice of the cake.


I have removed parts of the 9/11 section, as it was not sourced (there was source, but it did not contain anything). I suspect vandalism. I found some claims on the internet, but they take wikipedia as a source. There need to be a valid source, otherwise it is just vandalism. 94.220.237.113 (talk) 02:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Attribute

Antisemitism has been the subject of some discussion here although no consensus seems to have been reached. With great disgust I have noticed that one user even used the chance to openly present his own racist views. It surprises (and appalls me) how one can deny the fact that calling the Jewish people as a whole "hook-nosed" is an antisemitic statement. The statement is to be found in The Malay Dilemma and is also mentioned in secondary sources. The nature of these secondary sources is not of importance (though they are reputable) if it comes to the question of assessing the statement itself. Or how else can you call such a it if not antisemitic?--Fan of Freedom (talk) 22:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Because that is your opinion, and you have the right to have it. I have some negative opinions about contemporary living people as well. But I can't state it as fact on wikipedia. We must attribute the statements.Bless sins (talk) 23:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I must admit that you have a point. I had meant to refer to other examples of contemporary racists and antisemites but had to realize that in wikipedia you apparently can't even call such an extremist like Jean-Marie Le Pen what he really is. Such a kind of beating around the bush seems to be the common compromise for such topics though I still feel uneasy about it to say the least. I would suggest to just speak of "public remarks" as in the previous version.--Fan of Freedom (talk) 09:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
That is one of the down points of wikipedia. I read somewhere in an example on wiki policies that we can't call Saddam Hussein as "evil".Bless sins (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I can't see your face but if that was meant as some kind of ironic jibe I'd just point out that there is quite a difference between the two examples. But anyway, I'm not keen on discussing Mahathir's comments any further. I'll restore the version with "public remarks", hope everyone can live with that.--Fan of Freedom (talk) 13:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Tamil origin?

Is Dr.M of Tamil Muslim origin? Anwar (talk) 19:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The local officials had never said that. izzudin 17:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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