Talk:Magnet motor

this article from an outside site says that magnets store energy. http://coolmagnetman.com/magenergy.htm "A NdFeB(Neodymium-iron) magnet can pack a whopping 0.0000869 MJ/kg. Not much. In order to magnetize a magnet, it typically takes twice as much energy as it stores, since some energy is wasted as heat." that is the quote from the website.

also in the article it states that a AA alkaline battery stores 0.5 MJ/kg which is 575,373% more energy (0.5/0.0000869) than the same amount of a NdFeB magnet. also this corresponds to a NdFeB magnet being 0.01738% the energy density of a AA alkaline battery.

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17176 that is a link about a discussion of the topic of magnets doing work or not, it seems there are closet debates between intellectuals about the topic.

many scientific websites such as this one "https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/questions/power-magnet" state things like "What we have in the case of a fridge magnet is a magnetic force pulling the magnet against the iron door; this then leads to a frictional force that stops the magnet sliding down under gravity, but once the magnet is in place, no energy or power is consumed keeping it there. It's not very different in principle to sticking the magnet onto the fridge using glue."

this is obviously wrong when you consider the magnet is working against gravity and also working to hold objects on the fridge through a stored field-force. while the glue analogy is similar it doesn't feel right because glue doesn't have North and South opposing fields. Also, fridge magnets lose their charge over time and have to be replaced. Many people who are educated to teach science state things like this as this is just an example.

the question is that if is there is enough stored potential energy to recharge the magnets, can they be arranged to push a copper-iron rotor and stator in a useful capacity? I know several people have tried for awhile in their garages and have come short over the years, but, if a team of skeptical PhD's with the right equipment can spend a few weeks seriously trying to study this would they find some concrete evidence for or against this hypothesis?

I have trouble finding any research papers on the topic, not that they aren't there but they are not common enough for a search engine to pick up. this indicates that there hasn't been much academic work put to this question.

is it a flight of fancy or overlooked solution to energy? there are just not enough research articles on the internet to make a decision but I am leaning towards no for now as several have tried and failed but I am welcome to the idea. Jacob M. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacobmc77 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Jacob,

the "coolmagnetman" website on energy stored in magnets looks valid. These number state that a battery stores 575274% more energy than the magnet. The battery stores around 6000 times the amount of the magnet, and the magnet stores 0.0002 times the amount of the battery. The main article here already states ″Some argue that permanent magnets contain stored magnetic energy, which will be consumed by the motor. Such energy that exists is limited to the energy spent during the production of the magnet, which is rather small. Also, this would lead to a rapid reduction of the magnetization over time, which is not observed.″. Now you see why this is true: 0.0002 times the energy stored in a battery is indeed rather small. And indeed, if the energy was used, the magnetization would have to vanish.

Of course magnetic fields can do work, when the magnets change their position. However, this energy can be used only once. Then this energy has to be reinvested to bring the magnets apart again or change their orientation. In a cyclic movement, no work is done in sum.

The analogy between a fridge magnet and glue is valid, because in both cases no work is done over time.

If there was any chance that a magnet motor could in principle work, it would be the first thing for scientists to try out, and doing so very thoroughly. However, the fundamental laws are very well understood and there is no hope that the whole thing ever might work. This is why professional scientists don't even try. --Geek3 (talk) 11:02, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the response Geek3,

I saw that you wrote the wikipedia Article for this topic on Magnet Motors, I appreciate the work man I really do, It was hard to find information on this topic. I would have liked to read this over a year ago when I was searching the internet and now its all here.

I will have to agree with you. The fact that a magnet only holds half of the energy used to charge it makes the idea not work, if that fact is true. It was hard to find that fact as that's the only source I was able to find mentioned above.

also the only peer reviewed articles I found using Google scholar on this subject were very sketchy with most of the four or five I found using no math proofs and one that did was basing his work off of a software called FEMM4.2 so that isn't a physical test off of actual observations but based off predefined measurements. Also, all of them they were from 3rd world university students which unfortunately raises a red flag.

It is curious that no one is really trying to debunk this idea on the internet in fact the idea seems to be propagating. I would like to see some serious debunking of this idea because out of all the free energy scams out there it seems the most plausible, because there is very little information to disprove the magnet motor right now because most scientist cant explain simply in layman's terms why it wont work.

thanks for your response, I didn't get a notification that you responded I just checked back here.

Jacob M 12-12-2021 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:5700:25EC:95FC:246E:8F13:A9B6 (talk) 05:54, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion piece

Unfortunately this article does not satisfy the most basic requirements to be regarded as scientific, and therefore is an opinion piece.

Take with a grain of salt. 2A01:598:B1A5:C743:4B1B:282D:39D9:CCA2 (talk) 12:07, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scientific work

Can Magnetic Forces Do Work? Jacob A. Barandes, Jefferson Physical Laboratory, Harvard University, Cambridge, July 28, 2023 [1] WochenendeFeiern (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]